Power Conditioner(s)

[Drop-the-One]

When there is lots of previous draw on a breaker, like amps, lights etc... my amp does a safe shut-off, so I'm on the search for a power conditioner/surge protector.

What do I look for when shopping for one? How many watts do I need? Is there a difference between rackmount and powerbar? Any specific suggestions?

If it means anything, I run a Carvin bx1200 (375w to 1200w), Markbass410 800w and SWR410 800w

Thanks in advance

[bongomania]

Believe it or not, power conditioners and surge protectors do NOTHING to prevent the sort of shut-off you describe. In fact they bottleneck the current available to the amp, so they can actually make matters worse sometimes.

I have a blog post about power conditioners, that you might find interesting: http://blog.ovnilab.com/?p=122

A power regulator will do the job, but they are expensive and very heavy.

[Drop-the-One]

cool, thanks

[line6man]

A power conditioner many times is nothing more than a glorified surge protector. Maybe they've thrown in a few capacitors to filter the noise, but a basic power conditioner is nothing more than a power switch and a circuit breaker.


To answer your question, most power conditioners are designed to handle 15 or 20 amps, because that's the greatest amount of current you can draw from a standard 120V outlet, as they usually run on 15 or 20 amp breakers.

[darkstorm]

I use surge protectors on music gear and home theater. Same kind you can buy at computer stores. Fond of the monster cable brand ones and others that are rated for 13amps or more.

[TheMutt]

+1 for Bongo's post. I've owned a power conditioner in the past and it did nothing for voltage sag due to over worked lines. All they are is glorified and overly expensive surge protectors.

[BruceWane]

Originally Posted by bongomania

A power regulator will do the job, but they are expensive and very heavy.

another "but" to keep in mind...... when voltage sags, a power regulator boosts it back up to standard level by drawing more amperage. In other words, let's say you've got a 1000 watt amp. On a 120 volt circuit, it would require 8.33 amps. If that circuit were to drop to 100 volts, a power conditioner would pull 10 amps from the wall socket in order to provide enough juice to run 1000 watts of output.

In your situation, using a power regulator will probably keep your amp from shutting down, but you're likely to just trip a breaker instead. An overloaded circuit won't be fixed by a power regulator - you'll just move your failure point back to the breaker box.

[westom]

Originally Posted by darkstorm

I use surge protectors on music gear and home theater. Same kind you can buy at computer stores. Fond of the monster cable brand ones and others that are rated for 13amps or more.

A $3 power strip with some ten cent protector parts sell at an obscene $25. Monster has a long history of identifying scams. Then selling the same stuff for even higher profits. Therefore Monster also sells these same plug-in protectors, with a fancier paint job, for $150.

Monster knows a majority will recommend it for surge protection even when Monster's own spec sheets claim no such protection. View it yourself. Show us the numbers that define protection from each type of surge? No such numbers exist.

Monster will somehow stop what three miles of sky cannot? That is what you have posted. Monsters hundreds of joules will absorb surges that are hundreds of thousands of joules? Again, your post basically makes that claim.

Effective protection means the protector is distant from electronics and within feet of earth ground. Protection is always about where energy dissipates. If the manufacturer does not define that, they it probably does near zero protection. No problem. Near zero protection means they can claim 100% protection in sales brochures. Then a majority will *know* it must be complete protection ... when even the manufacturer will not make that claim.

Protection is always about where energy dissipates. Therefore a protector is only as effective as its earth ground - which Monster does not provide and will not discuss. Profits - not protection - are the purpose of Monster products.

Meanwhile, other manufacturers have discovered how to play the same Monster protector game. They promote that same $3 power strip protector as a power conditioner - for $hundreds. A majority will worship a sales brochure rather then read numeric spec sheets.

[Drop-the-One]

Bongo, excellent blog! I'm learning so much right now from everyone... KEEP GOING!

[lindseyp]

Fuhrman P-1800AR is expensive, but I'm interested; another one to check out is the Fuhrman AR-1215. I'm not endorsing these products, they're just the first to come to my mind when someone mentions voltage/electricity problems. Tripp Lite makes some products to check out, too.

[westom]

Originally Posted by lindseyp

Fuhrman P-1800AR is expensive, but I'm interested; another one to check out is the Fuhrman

First learn what all electronics do. Incandescent lamps can dim to 50% intensity. And all electronics still have stable, completely unvaried power. Yes, when incandescent bulbs are that dim, that is still ideal and perfect power to all electronics. How often do your incandescent lamps dim that much? What does Furman hope you never learn? Anything the Furman might do is already done inside every electronics appliance.

First create a mythical problem. Then sell you a solution. Did you think logically? Or can they so easily scam you? The Furman does virtually nothing as Furman's own spec numbers say. But Furman also knows that 70% of us will only blindly believe what we are told to believe. Furman knows 70% of human eyes glaze over when the numbers arrive. That Furman cost how much to do absolutely nothing?

[Muaguana]

I must say, Westom - you speak with the fervor of a solipsist zealot ("ALL YOU HAVE EVER KNOWN IS A LIE!!!"), but you nonetheless make a great argument, and I commend your efforts to educate people on the misinformation spread by profit-hungry conglomerates.

[Floyd Eye]

Who gives a crap. I use a Furman. It is awfully convenient in a rack to have all your stuff plug in to one spot. $50

[westom]

Originally Posted by Floyd Eye

Who gives a crap. I use a Furman. It is awfully convenient in a rack to have all your stuff plug in to one spot. $50

Tie a knot in the power cord. Then you may have the same filtering.

Spend $4 for the same convenient power strip - without the 1000% profit margin.

Furman demonstrates what Monster Cable did when selling $7 speaker wire for $70. Monster told consumers that speaker wire had polarity. Marked one end for the speakers; other end for the amp. Then many consumers could hear the difference if those speaker wires were reversed. Furman is sold using the same techniques.

[tjclem]

So there is nothing that helps filter out noise and gives a cleaner signal to your amps when you are playing old bars with bad lighting and coolers and other noisy factors? Thanks ..t

[westom]

Originally Posted by tjclem

So there is nothing that helps filter out noise and gives a cleaner signal to your amps when you are playing old bars with bad lighting and coolers and other noisy factors?

Of course there is. Series mode filters. To do that, filters are quite heavy. Some products are Zerosurge, Brickwall, and Surgex.

Meanwhile, that is the job of the power supply inside the amp. Making noise and voltage anomalies irrelevant is best and easiest done inside its supply. What Furman claims to do for $100, a supply must already do for $10.

How a supply works: First it has a serious line filter that meets FCC and other requirements. Then AC is converted to higher voltage DC. Then filtered again. Then converted to high voltage radio frequency electricity. Notice how 'dirty' electricity now is. Then more filtering and galvanic isolation while converting to high current (low voltage) radio waves. Then converts to DC. Then filtered again. Some supplies do even more.

How does noisy bar power get through all that? If equipment is properly designed, it shouldn't.