preamps and active EQs.

[ericmknight1906]

I searched threads and couldn't find any answers to my question.

I'm trying to become more knowledgeable about bass guitar electronics.

Is there a significant difference between an "active EQ" and an "onboard preamp EQ"?

I believe my 4 string fender jazz MIM model has a 3 band active eq. But I notice that the real high end basses have onboard preamp EQ's.

Sometimes I feel like my Fender Jazz doesn't give that thunderous sound and attack that I so desperately need. The tone is awesome, but I can't seem to get enough volume and attack especially when slapping. Could the onboard pre-amp solve this problem? If so, does anyone have any suggestions for a good brand preamp installation not requiring any modification to the guitar body and very little modification to the wiring?

Everything is made for Fender these days so I figure an aftermarket preamp installation has got to be out there somewhere. Any suggestions will do. Thanks

[NKUSigEp]

This has been covered extensively on here so you might wanna try searching different topics.

"Active" is just a blanket term meaning it requires power (almost always from a 9V battery in a bass) to operate and can boost and/or cut a signal. The antonym being "passive", means that it doesn't need an external power source but can only cut a signal. A preamp is a device used to boost and/or cut frequencies and volume and can be active or passive...but most often are active.

Your MIM Jazz is probably passive with the standard volume/volume/tone control layout, unless it's been modified by someone. Does it have a battery in it? If you don't think you like the tone then I'd suggest trying new pickups first. MIM Jazzes are notorious for having thin-sounding pickups and pretty much any pickup will be an improvement (Nordstrand, EMG, Duncan, Bartolini, etc.). If you still think you need a preamp, there are a lot of great brands out there to choose from. My two favorites are EMG and Aguilar but like in the first statement, search different topics and you'll get more info than you'd ever want.

[4Mal]

You would be confused ... on-board active EQ and preamp are sort of the same item to moost folks. The pre in your bass isn't actually all that bad. Could it get better - sure it can get degrees better - it's just not going to take you from somewhere to 'thunderous'.

There's plenty of stuff to choose from out there in active on board stuff. My pick would be Audere. Opinions on that pre are all over this site so use the search.

In your specific case, if you want to make this monster jump in your tone from well something 'not thunderous' to some thing 'thunderous' - which is a really bad idea IMO - you might want to consider a stompable EQ pedal. That way you get a 1 button 'preset' kind of adjustment as opposed to having to dink about with bass, middle and treble controls on your bass to go from 'not thunderous' to 'thunderous'.

The bad idea thing ? You're bound to make that change some day when your rig is already at or near it's limits and pop goes the driver - not to mention that unless the rest of your band simultaneously does the same decibel jump - there goes the mix. Of course if you don't care about the mix or the repair bills - Carry On!

The floor box EQ I use - when I need it - offers gain settings for the EQ so - If I cut 'n boost into a big sounding slap 'n pop smiley curve setting - I can also knock down the overall gain - I get a tonal change but not an overall volume jump or maybe just a small one in spite of a radical change in EQ. Mine is an old Trace Elliot SM-7. Not easy to find and definately a piece to score if you stumble over one. My use for it is to restore 'body' back into my signal chain if there are 'body robbing' effects also in use. Filter pedals, flange, overdrive often rob low end so I'll run them off a loop and include the EQ in there so I don;t lose punch when engaging the effect. Pretty limited use item for me... still - it's a useful tool to have in the bag.

[ericmknight1906]

Originally Posted by NKUSigEp

Does it have a battery in it?

Yes, it has a 9 volt battery with a 3-band eq ( bass/treble stack, mids, and pup knob).

[bongomania]

Originally Posted by ericmknight1906

Sometimes I feel like my Fender Jazz doesn't give that thunderous sound and attack that I so desperately need.

In all seriousness, you need a better amp, not a better onboard preamp.

[badboy1984]

I wouldn't start messing around with onboard preamp until you know what you doing.

Like someone said before, your MIM Fender Jazz will be most likely a passive bass with Volume/Volume/Tone.

+1 on changing pickup if your bass still have stock pickups.

You can look into EMG, delano, Ducan's, Nordy, Dimarzio etc

Anyone of them will improve your tone alot, then if that still doesn't please you, you may want to upgrade a batter amp.

If you still feel you need more control on your tone than install a preamp on your bass. I would say a Audera or John East for Jazz bass.

I use John East (J-Retro 01) on my fender RI 60 and the tone i get is fantastic, so much control i have on the bass.

[4Mal]

Originally Posted by badboy1984

I wouldn't start messing around with onboard preamp until you know what you doing.

Like someone said before, your MIM Fender Jazz will be most likely a passive bass with Volume/Volume/Tone.

+1 on changing pickup if your bass still have stock pickups.

You can look into EMG, delano, Ducan's, Nordy, Dimarzio etc

Anyone of them will improve your tone alot, then if that still doesn't please you, you may want to upgrade a batter amp.

If you still feel you need more control on your tone than install a preamp on your bass. I would say a Audera or John East for Jazz bass.

I use John East (J-Retro 01) on my fender RI 60 and the tone i get is fantastic, so much control i have on the bass.

uh, the OP mentioned 3 band EQ and confirm's a battery ...

[4StringTheorist]

Originally Posted by ericmknight1906

I searched threads and couldn't find any answers to my question.

I'm trying to become more knowledgeable about bass guitar electronics.

Is there a significant difference between an "active EQ" and an "onboard preamp EQ"?

No difference at all if we're talking about electronics onboard a bass. Where is it that you think you have seen these two phrases used to describe different things?

"Active" on board a bass essentially means "uses a battery or other power supply", while "passive" means "does not use a battery or other power supply."

A preamp is active.

Classic tone controls (tone knob) are passive.
What we often call EQ on board a bass is active.

Most bass preamps offer some tone shaping in the form of EQ, but not all of them do.

Pickups can be active or passive.
Tone controls on a bass can be active or passive.
You can mix those in any combination, which confuses a lot of people who often think that if the bass is active (with an EQ), the pickups must also be active.

The following combinations are possible:

Passive pickups, passive tone controls: Classic Fender bass
Passive pickups, active tone controls: Newer Fender w/ preamp like your bass.. and most of what are called "active basses"
Active pickups, passive tone controls: Classic Fender w/ active replacement pickups like EMGs, but the old tone controls
Active pickups, active tone controls: Active pickups and active preamp. American series MTD, for example.

Originally Posted by ericmknight1906

I believe my 4 string fender jazz MIM model has a 3 band active eq. But I notice that the real high end basses have onboard preamp EQ's.

From what you state, your bass has an onboard preamp EQ.

Originally Posted by ericmknight1906

Sometimes I feel like my Fender Jazz doesn't give that thunderous sound and attack that I so desperately need. The tone is awesome, but I can't seem to get enough volume and attack especially when slapping. Could the onboard pre-amp solve this problem? If so, does anyone have any suggestions for a good brand preamp installation not requiring any modification to the guitar body and very little modification to the wiring?

Everything is made for Fender these days so I figure an aftermarket preamp installation has got to be out there somewhere. Any suggestions will do. Thanks

An Audere JZ3 will bolt right on to a Fender Jazz..
So will an East J-Retro.

Read up on these forums. Both of those are wonderful preamps.

[Codger]

Originally Posted by 4StringTheorist

The following combinations are possible:

Passive pickups, passive tone controls: Classic Fender bass
Passive pickups, active tone controls: Newer Fender w/ preamp like your bass.. and most of what are called "active basses"
Active pickups, passive tone controls: Classic Fender w/ active replacement pickups like EMGs, but the old tone controls
Active pickups, active tone controls: Active pickups and active preamp. American series MTD, for example.

And to confuse the issue further -
Passive pickups, passive tone controls followed by a buffer amp (active). G&L ASAT for example.

One generally thinks of an active preamp as containing an active EQ perhaps with some form of a Baxandall tone circuit. Not so in the ASAT (L2000?) case. The tone controls use conventional Hi-Z pots. It allows a pretty easy active/passive switch.

[4StringTheorist]

Originally Posted by Codger

And to confuse the issue further -
Passive pickups, passive tone controls followed by a buffer amp (active). G&L ASAT for example.

One generally thinks of an active preamp as containing an active EQ perhaps with some form of a Baxandall tone circuit. Not so in the ASAT (L2000?) case. The tone controls use conventional Hi-Z pots. It allows a pretty easy active/passive switch.

Excellent point! As I mentioned....

Originally Posted by 4StringTheorist

Most bass preamps offer some tone shaping in the form of EQ, but not all of them do.

There's a great variety of electronics configurations!

[DavePlaysBass]

To add to what has been said, "active bass" or "preamp in bass" indicate there is an electronic circuit between your pickups and your instrument cable. This circuit "buffers" the impedance (resistance and inductance) of your pickups from the capacitance of the instrument cable. Even with the EQ set flat, you will get some more high end with this circuit in place because the instrument cable connect directly to the pickups will load them down and roll off some high end. And as typical with active preamps, you get the ability to boost or cut bass, treble, and sometimes mids. In a passive basses you typically get just a passive tone (treble) control. It is cut only. However it does boost some mids slightly as you cut treble (another long story). The G&Ls offer passive bass and treble cut. There are some out there that offer passive mid cut as well but they are not particularly common.

[ericmknight1906]

Originally Posted by 4Mal

You would be confused ... on-board active EQ and preamp are sort of the same item to moost folks. The pre in your bass isn't actually all that bad. Could it get better - sure it can get degrees better - it's just not going to take you from somewhere to 'thunderous'.

There's plenty of stuff to choose from out there in active on board stuff. My pick would be Audere. Opinions on that pre are all over this site so use the search.

In your specific case, if you want to make this monster jump in your tone from well something 'not thunderous' to some thing 'thunderous' - which is a really bad idea IMO - you might want to consider a stompable EQ pedal. That way you get a 1 button 'preset' kind of adjustment as opposed to having to dink about with bass, middle and treble controls on your bass to go from 'not thunderous' to 'thunderous'.

The bad idea thing ? You're bound to make that change some day when your rig is already at or near it's limits and pop goes the driver - not to mention that unless the rest of your band simultaneously does the same decibel jump - there goes the mix. Of course if you don't care about the mix or the repair bills - Carry On!

The floor box EQ I use - when I need it - offers gain settings for the EQ so - If I cut 'n boost into a big sounding slap 'n pop smiley curve setting - I can also knock down the overall gain - I get a tonal change but not an overall volume jump or maybe just a small one in spite of a radical change in EQ. Mine is an old Trace Elliot SM-7. Not easy to find and definately a piece to score if you stumble over one. My use for it is to restore 'body' back into my signal chain if there are 'body robbing' effects also in use. Filter pedals, flange, overdrive often rob low end so I'll run them off a loop and include the EQ in there so I don;t lose punch when engaging the effect. Pretty limited use item for me... still - it's a useful tool to have in the bag.

.