Stumped! PuPs for my Warmoth J bass?

[akori]

Hello All:
Just got my Warmoth Chambered Black Korina/Goncalo Alves with Pau Ferro Fretboard Fretless.
Set up by a great tech, it has a really nice acoustic sound. (Unplugged, it is loud, has great attack and sustain, nice tone).
BUT, when amplified, it is a few dB quieter than my other two Fender Jazz fretlesses...and a bit lacking in definition, somewhat muffled. Not bad, but not great. This really stumps me. The acoustic tone is ALL there...I loaded it with Fender Custom Shop 60s Jazz PuPs. I did this , b/c I love super low action (need it), and like a treble rolloff, or a very strong low mid to over-ride fret and fretboard noise, turning rattle into GROWL.
I Know Goncalo Alves is a much warmer wood than Maple, and perhaps this PuP combo is just too warm for Korina and Goncalo, despite the snap of the Pau Ferro board.

SO! any enlightned ideas on how/ why this otherwise exceptional bass could sound a bit dull amplified, whilst being all "there" acoustically?

Any ideas regarding optional PuPs, tone caps, etc?

(The PuP height is optimal, and I'd ASSUME the 60s custom shop PuPs are very close to vintage spec, just a shade darker...but this bass SHOULD be lively).
(BTW, with Hb6C hipshots, and a featherweight 4 Lb. 2 oz. body, this baby comes in at exactly 8.5 Lbs...very comfy, no neck dive...the Goncalo Alves (warmoth Pro) construction neck weighs a whopping 2 Lbs. 4. oz, a full pound heavier than a typical fender neck.
Thanks

[SGD Lutherie]

The treble roll off is where you are loosing the growl. When unplugged there is no treble roll off.

What value tone cap do you have in the bass? You might want to move to a smaller value, i.e., if you have a .1, go to a .047µF, and if you have a .047 go to a .02µF cap.

If none of that works, you need different pickups. What works in one bass does not always work in others.

[selowitch]

Get some Bartolinis. They do a nice job with exotic-wood basses.

Sam

[grendle]

Originally Posted by SGD Lutherie

The treble roll off is where you are loosing the growl. When unplugged there is no treble roll off.

What value tone cap do you have in the bass? You might want to move to a smaller value, i.e., if you have a .1, go to a .047µF, and if you have a .047 go to a .02µF cap.

If none of that works, you need different pickups. What works in one bass does not always work in others.

+1

Work with what you have first, then maybe consider a swap. There are lots of options, and since you went to the extreme with a nice custom build, why go for imo a so ,so stock pup. I'm sure if it comes down to a pup change a custom pup builder would be happy to help you if you tell them what you have and what your looking for tone wise. Generally their in the same price range as production pups.

[akori]

David:
Thanks for the great response. It so happens I got a hold of Carey Nordstrand yesterday and asked him the same question re; a set of se (Jazz humbuckers I got; he said go to a lower capacitance cap. My tech put in Gibson caps on both my basses(by mistake)...the warmoth in question, AND the other J-bass with Nordies. Result: more focused tone in both cases, especially with tone roll-off.
Excellent!
Also, it provides a starting point for a series of experiments, since I started with .47, and I'm now a7 .22.
Thanks!

[akori]

Hey Selowitch: Thanks for the idea:
You'll see what David suggested& what I tried, with good results...but...For the Warmoth, it STILL is quieter than the other two J fretlesses, even the '09 US Standard, with US standard (modern PuPs)...oddly, THAT one has the most insane Low mid growl with tone rolled off.
Anyway, I onced LOVED Barts. I hear they have changed in design and tone...But I still can't help but imagine this warmoth- again, with these mostly warmer woods (who ever heard of Goncalo and Korina on a freaking J- bass?).
I'd like a PuP to bring out some vibrance that these very warm woods are subduing, and Barts, be it from my imagination/ memory of older basses, or whatever, always come to mind.

ALSO, I have to say that my Warwick FNA Jazzman with the MM -style MEC is warm as hell, and , surprisingly, it is NOT a really high resistance pickup...I expected 15 oHms or so, but as I recall it's about HALF that. I always run it in passive, and it is so punchy and warm. I wonder about MECs, also for that ability to work with the exotic woods.
I'm digging this experiment now...got three fretless J basses (two fender bodies of Alder, and one all warmoth). Of the necks, one is stock FenderMaple/ RW, the other is a decidededly thicker USACG J neck of nearly quarter-sawn maple/ madagascar rosewood
and finally the Warmoth (Pro construction) with Goncalo/ pau ferro board.
As to PuPs, one set of modern US Fenders, one 60's Custom shop J set, and one Nordie NSJ4e...
Dizzying.
The whole war started when I got the 2009 Jazz (stock). It sings like no other I ever played, but has a typical fender neck: a bit wobbly for super low action...so I sought to get comparable tone with high stability. Now I'm neck - deep in J basses and an endless series of swaps!
Nuts.

[akori]

Hey Grendle (and Selowitch):
Agreed...as well as with what David said...in the end, it may be the PuPs. I have been playing the warmoth for an hour or so, and though it IS more focused now with the .22 caps, it is still noticeably quieter than the stock Fender (which is bizarre...the stock Fender with the Fender neck is the WEAKEST acoustically, yet shines above the other two when plugged in (but only with tone rolled off). That just conflicts with everything I ever felt about basses.
Anyway, I am already considering going to other PuPs for the Warmoth. This thing should be a loud, resonant BEAST, given it's purely acoustic properties. For one reason or another, I think the Fender 60s Custom Shop J Bass set is not the best match for it...it needs more "oomph" in certain frequencies. I definitely like vintage -type warmth, but this is just lacking in some important ways, almost anemic in a few frequency ranges. (amplified, that is, not acoustically).
ALSO, GRENDLE: I was born/ raised in Cocoa Beach. Moved to Colorado Springs at the age of 19. Which town are you in?
Thanks.
PPS: The confusion of construction , electronics and tone never seems to end...I gotta say if there's one unstoppable bass I have ever owned, it's my FNA Jazzman. Just a killer. Like Fender, but with a fundamental that will NOT get lost. And yet, perhaps because I play with ultra- low string action, it is NOT the most incredible sounding acoustically. But fire up those MECs (I never use the 3 band), and it is often just TOO loud in series...paralell brings it down to the level of mere mortal basses, just beefier, yet clear...This thing could knock down a wall, yet sounds so sweet.

[grendle]

I'm in Lake Mary, half way between Orlando and daytona on I4. Got any pics of that bass? It sounds beautiful. I've played a few warmoth basses and they all have been really great. I love that flame top z on their site, and there's a cool black cherry one also. So much GAS, so little time....

[akori]

Yeah, Lake Mary...Know where it is, never got up there. CocoaBeach was a great place to grow up, though.
I really SHOULD upload some pics. My camera sucks...but I will try and get some up in the next few days. It is particularly nice with a Fender deluxe low mass gold bridge, Gold Hipshots, a bent-to fit gold football jack on the side, etc. Satin finish on the body.

BTW, what's the current take on Bartolini? Back in the 80s/90s, we were all nuts about them, they seemed warm and hot, punchy, loud...I've heard a few posters here complain that they can sound brittle these days. I know the type of preamp/ or lack of preamp affects this of course. Any experience with them lately?

[selowitch]

You could also look at Delano pickups. Serious growl there.