Stupid questions about active vs. passive

Stupid Jerk · #1 09-25-2006, 10:54 PM

I'd use the search feature but I don't know how to phrase it to get what I'm lookin' for.

I've never been much of a gearhead... my philosophy is to have just enough to cover all the bases you might have to cover. Therefore, versatility is key.

Active basses sound real good live in my experience, and passive basses often get lost in the mix (especially in bands where the guitars are loud and messy) more than active seems to, but a pro guitarist friend of mine told me that they're lousy for recording ("they're too bright") and that the engineer will ask you to replace it with a passive setup. Is that true or was he just woofing me?

Because I'm a multi-instrumentalist who likes to do stuff on his own, recording is more important to me than playing live... though I'd want to be able to cover both basses*COUGH*bases.

Also, let's say I had a passive set-up but I wanted active power for a live show. Is there any kind of... like... external pre-amp thingy I could run it through that would give a passive bass the cut-right-through-that-damn-mix OOMPH of an active bass?

Dave · #2 09-25-2006, 11:02 PM

You could have an active bass with a passive/active switch built in. Personally, I really disagree with the statement that active basses are bright recorded. When recording with active basses, I have ALWAYS had to cut bass to get a suitable tone for my music and tastes.

As for external preamps, I know Aguilar makes one, and Sadlowsy I think does too, but dont hold me to that.

Stupid Jerk · #3 09-25-2006, 11:14 PM

What's an example of a bass that has an on/off switch like that? Does the passive sound comparable to, say for instance, a good model passive-only bass (i.e. a Deluxe J-Bass)?

Dave · #4 09-25-2006, 11:19 PM

Lakland 44 and 55 series basses have one, and IIRC, Fender makes some. Valenti would be able to do that too. The passive sound would come alot from what type of sound your pickups have. I had a Lakland with Bartolini pickups that had a very dark sound passive, but played other passive basses with alot more mids and highs in them.

Sean S · #5 09-26-2006, 10:33 AM

on a related note, does a musicman(humbucker) require an active preamp?

I want to try the active/passive thing as well, and have a jazz neck pup and a musicman style pup (both seymour duncans) on order...a la lakland

s

**David Wilson** · #6 09-26-2006, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobb

on a related note, does a musicman(humbucker) require an active preamp?

No passive pickup out there HAS to be run with a preamp.

Sean S · #7 09-26-2006, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmwilson

No passive pickup out there HAS to be run with a preamp.

Okay...so a musicman pickup is passive? I wasn't sure, because (IIRC) stingrays use active preamps...

any suggestions, though, on an active/passive setup?

**David Wilson** · #8 09-26-2006, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobb

Okay...so a musicman pickup is passive? I wasn't sure, because (IIRC) stingrays use active preamps...

Active preamps don't mean you have active pickups and vice versa.

Quote:

any suggestions, though, on an active/passive setup?

I don't really agree with you that passive basses don't cut through live, I think what happens is that we sometimes perceive that to be the case since active basses often have higher output and therefore sound like they are cutting through better.

I play both active/passive basses live, and never have problems cutting through. I'd suggest looking at your gain structure and amp eq (more low mids maybe?)

If you're hellbent on getting an external preamp, and you'll be switching basses live, you'll want a unit you can engage/disengage with a footswitch - like the Sadowsky, Sansamp or MXR devices.

All are perfectly good devices, just a question of what your needs are - 2 band vs 3 band, DI/no DI, etc. If you look in the effects forum, you'll find many many reviews of all these preamp pedals.

poppamies · #9 09-26-2006, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tim99

Lots of bass players record with passive pickups and active preamps direct to the board.

You can't use the term "active preamp". It's confusing. There are only active pickups or passive pickups. Of course all preamps are "active". When you have passive pickups you have to use a preamp either in the bass, in the amplifier or use a separate preamp + poweramp. Even if the preamp is in an onboard preamp in the bass it doesn't make the bass any more "active" than any other passive bass. The only active bass is a bass with an intergrated preamp built into the pickups. EMG is a great example of an active pickup.

Sean S · #10 09-26-2006, 02:48 PM

davidm, i think you misquoted me haha (I never said anything about cutting through live)

and i think I should've used the term 'onboard pre-' ...what I'm getting at is that I want an onboard pre that I can disengage so I can have a warmer passive sound at the flick of a switch.

and I just didn't know whether musicman pickups were active or not...do you need a pre with active pickups?

thanks

sean

**David Wilson** · #11 09-26-2006, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobb

davidm, i think you misquoted me haha (I never said anything about cutting through live)

sorry, that was OP

Quote:

do you need a pre with active pickups?

Well, active pickups have a preamp in the pickup itself. You don't NEED to pair them with a separate preamp offering bass/treble cut/boost etc.

You can have:
active pickups / preamp (bass/treble)
active pickups / passive electronics (vol/tone)
passive pickups / preamp
passive pickups / passive electronics

Sean S · #12 09-26-2006, 04:37 PM

Okay, I think I get it now!

My pickups are passive, but I want an onboard preamp, right?

Is there a preamp, then, that is switchable between active and passive (or, more correctly I suppose, on and off)?????

i.e. Switch from vol/vol/tone to vol/blend/treble/bass/mid/everything else

**David Wilson** · #13 09-26-2006, 08:54 PM

Nearly all preamps are easily switchable between active and passive. Audere and J-Retro can both be bypassed but you lose functionality of blend switch when doing so because they usually use an active blend rather than standard passive blend.

I've never heard of a config where you'd switch from vol/vol to vol/blend, are you sure that's what you meant?

Sean S · #14 09-26-2006, 09:45 PM

well, i didn't know there was such a thing as a passive blend...

I was thinking about what I know about 2-pickup configurations (not much, I assure you) .....a jazz bass....because I do have the 2 pickups...
so I guess it is what I meant, but shouldn't have been what I meant...

Basically I want passive volume and tone controls switchable to an active bass and treble, w/vol and blend control...

confused yet? haha

fourstring44 · #15 10-04-2006, 11:08 PM

G&L L200-Asat-L2500 all have the electronics you desire! The only exception is they don't have a blend, just a pickup selector.

Philbiker · #16 10-05-2006, 06:24 AM

Both the assumptions you are asking about are false.

Whether a bass "cuts through in the mix" live has nothing at all to do with whether it's active or passive.

Whether a bass records well in a studio has nothing at all to do with whether it's active or passive.

Some engineers prefer passive basses because they're more familiar with them.

Yes, there are outboard EQs, personally I don't see the point of them. The EQ on the front panel of your amp should be sufficinet for your tonal desires, if not, then a new amp may be a better choice than an EQ.

73jbass · #17 10-05-2006, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philbiker

Both the assumptions you are asking about are false.

Whether a bass "cuts through in the mix" live has nothing at all to do with whether it's active or passive.

Whether a bass records well in a studio has nothing at all to do with whether it's active or passive.

Some engineers prefer passive basses because they're more familiar with them.

Yes, there are outboard EQs, personally I don't see the point of them. The EQ on the front panel of your amp should be sufficinet for your tonal desires, if not, then a new amp may be a better choice than an EQ.

+1 to that.Ask Chris Squire or Geddy Lee about their passive basses.They will never get lost in the mix. Eq is a huge part of how well a bass sit's in the mix.I play both passive and active,and typically run the tone controls flat,and just use the eq on the amp.

Stupid Jerk · #18 10-06-2006, 02:46 AM

Ah... much enlightening. Thanx, y'all.

dave_bass5 · #19 10-06-2006, 05:49 AM

Just a quick story based on the OP's friend saying about engineers asking for the bass to be passive. And bit OT i know.
A few weeks ago we went in to cut some demos and the engineer (it was quite a small, one man operation) said because of the interference my bass would pick up could i use his passive Jazz instead. In fact he said he wouldnt allow me to use my bass.
After picking myself up off the floor where i had fallen through laughing so much i told him to get lost and walked out.
The reason was. im playing a lakland 55-01 5 string, i can get a tone we all really like and its nothing like a passive jazz. plus i play the B string quite a bit (mid neck most of the time).
We ended up using another studio, the first thing i said to the engineer was can i use an active bass, he laughed and said if i can play one i can use one. no problem at all.
Since i have had my lakland i find i have to switch my PC monitor off when im sitting near it recording. I have no trouble with my other Bass's (all passive) so i can see the what my engineer meant but to ask me to play a totaly different bass was gonig a bit far IMO
Thanks for reading
Back on topic..............

Human Bass · #20 10-06-2006, 11:09 AM

JPJ's jazz cuts better than the alembics IMO