Suggestions for positioinng a single Dark Star?

[Bass Ghost]

I've got a build planned for a single Dark Star pickup in a thinline tele body ,(think a short scale version of a hollow Asat bass).What would be the better placement,in the single "mm" spot or the "p" spot?Also considering a Varitone control...

[sunbeast]

I have a double Darkstar-equipped Jazz bass. The pickups can be flipped around 180 degrees if you route out the cavity to allow it, which gives you 2 different polepiece positions to choose from. I currently have the neck pickup in approximately the position of the D and G string half of a P-bass pickup (remember- the "P position" is actually 2 positions, as is the "MM position", as both have 2 side by side coils- while a Darkstar is a single coil), and the bridge pickup in approximately the same position as a 60s Fender Jazz bridge pickup.

It really depends on what you're going for tonewise- The Darkstar in the J bridge position essentially sounds like a J bridge pickup- its got that same snap and "honk". The neck pickup sounds alot like a P pickup- more woody and round. The biggest differences to my ears are A) Darkstars can be deep and full sounding wherever you put them (which can't be said for alot of pickups in these positions), and B) Their touch-responsiveness is beyond any other pickup I've ever played- if you play hard, the pickup delivers an aggressive and loud attack. Play soft- the pickup gives you a mellow and smooth attack. Play by the bridge- you get crazy note articulation. Play by the neck- you get round.

I think you could find a location somewhere between the 2 postions and route to be able to flip it around to get both tones more or less. I personally have been prefering the bridge pickup position on mine- but its because that articulation and punch is what I've been wanting tonewise lately. If you want more of a round and supportive bass tone, then move it closer to the neck! I used to prefer the neck pickup...

Karl

[sonic assassin]

this is why the gibson grabber is so cool. the pickup freakin' moves. genius.

[sunbeast]

Originally Posted by sonic assassin

this is why the gibson grabber is so cool. the pickup freakin' moves. genius.

Its cool in theory, but as most people that have owned or played a Grabber can attest, there is very little noticeable difference in the tone from one side of the track to the other. Had they made the moveable range a couple inches bigger, it might have been much more effective!

Karl

[RD]

I've had several basses with a single DS. None of them with a short scale. One of them had the pick up in a MM position. In my experience/opinion the P position gives the best results. Keep in mind that I no longer have a DS'd bass. I guess I didn't like the pick up that much. I certainly was fascinated by the excitement around them.
RD

[Bass Ghost]

Guys,

Thanks for all your expertise and info...I'm leaning more to the "p" at this point.

[BassicJohn]

When Dark Star's are set at a more or less normal distance from the strings they are as described above. If you position a Dark Star so that it is very close to the strings (less than 3/16 inch), it interacts with the strings and creates a whole different sound. It is hard to describe, but I would call it more brass-like than string-like.

[4Mal]

Originally Posted by sunbeast

Its cool in theory, but as most people that have owned or played a Grabber can attest, there is very little noticeable difference in the tone from one side of the track to the other. Had they made the moveable range a couple inches bigger, it might have been much more effective!

Karl

As a former owner of a Grabber I can attest that if the actual instrument had been better designed and beter built and didn't have a neck shaped like a rough cut 2x4 - it would have been a fine instrument. My recollection i one of 'what was I thinking, when I bought this piece of crap ?' I ran back to P-Basses pretty fast... why these things sell today is beyond me ...

The sliding pickup concept is cool though. When I was into the Dark Star idea I was thinking that hollowing out a cheap P body and being able to play with the position before doing it for real on a nice bod would have been helpful ...

My take on it is that about .75" back from the P position - basically in between the P 7 the MM would be a really good spot for a DS. I felt the P position, with the poles towards the bridge was still a bit onthe heavey side. Just a tad more mid's and I'd probably still own that bass.

[Fred Hammon]

Originally Posted by BassicJohn

When Dark Star's are set at a more or less normal distance from the strings they are as described above. If you position a Dark Star so that it is very close to the strings (less than 3/16 inch), it interacts with the strings and creates a whole different sound. It is hard to describe, but I would call it more brass-like than string-like.

I suspect that many people have their Dark Star pole pieces too close to the strings and wonder why it doesn't sound right.
That 3/16" clearance in the P or neck position is absolute minimum! (depending on the bass, strings, playing style etc.)

Fred

[Bass Ghost]

Thanks again to everyone for their opinions and especially Fred Hammon!

[sunbeast]

Originally Posted by Fred Hammon

I suspect that many people have their Dark Star pole pieces too close to the strings and wonder why it doesn't sound right.
That 3/16" clearance in the P or neck position is absolute minimum! (depending on the bass, strings, playing style etc.)

Fred

+1.....There was alot of hype around these pickups for awhile (and I think rightly so), but I've seen a couple basses modded with these pickups that just get passed around over and over. And I've also read several comments from past Darkstar users which suggest to me mods gone wrong- I can only assume that the people that did the mods didn't account for the different way these pickups seem to react with the strings. Most Fender-style basses WILL NOT give the kind of clearance from polepieces to strings that the original Starfire Hollowbody basses had unless you drop the polepieces below the surface of the pickup or adjust the neck angle to add more space between strings and body (I do both to some degree on my bass). With the poles right up on the strings, the Darkstar can be very harsh and "peaky" sounding- and it will really lack the deep lush bottom that makes them so pleasing in the right setup. I set mine up high enough that I can get some of that nastiness if I really hit the strings hard, but can also get smooth and balanced- they are still amazingly touch sensitive even when adjusted really low!

When I first had my Jazz modded with the Darkstars, I was like "where the heck is the Jack Casady in this?". I had about 1/16" between the poles and the strings- just like I would set up my old Jazz Bass...It took me a couple months of experimentation and adjustment to find that "the tone" was really there- and Fred is right that there really needs to be alot more space between the pickup and the strings with a Darkstar than with your typical bass pickup.

Karl

[BassicJohn]

Fred is right about the spacing. If everything is right (mellow resonant wood, bright but not harsh strings, strings plucked just right, etc.) then the close spacing can produce an amazing sound unlike any other bass. But, it seems from what I have tried that it is much easier to get a sound that is not so great with the close spacing. The close spacing makes the Dark Star pickup REALLY sensitive. It will magnify everything both good and bad. I found the perfect mix with the Dark Star set about 1/8 inch from the strings on an old mid 80's Patriot when using some no-name strings that I bought on eBay for $5 a set. Other name brand strings that I have tried so far don't have the magic, but I am still hoping to find other strings that will work. Fred really created something special when he designed the Dark Star pickups.

[Eilif]

I would definately go for the p (mid) spot. If you like the old gibson eb basses, I would put it right at the neck. In the interest of full disclosure, I should say that I am not a fan of bridge-pickup-only basses. I have a DS'd T-40, and every combination of those two pickups seems to sound great!

[mellowgerman]

right here! granted, my guild has an original hagstrom, but this is the best sounding bass I've ever heard. I had an ibanez semihollow with a darkstar more towards the neck (about Pbass position) and I like the guild a lot more.

[edwinhurwitz]

Hell, just get two! I really like the way two pickups interact. I use a blend pot far more than I use tone controls. But, that's just me and my DS equipped Starfire.

Edwin

[mellowgerman]

Originally Posted by edwinhurwitz

Hell, just get two! I really like the way two pickups interact. I use a blend pot far more than I use tone controls. But, that's just me and my DS equipped Starfire.

Edwin

okay i totally see edwin's point, but if you get two, you still should try the bridge pickup where my single hagstrom is (roughly MM sweetspot i think). i had a dark star right next to the bridge on my last guild and it's nowhere near as groovalicious as it is one inch closer toward the middle. just my $.02

[Bass Ghost]

Mellow-G,

That Starfire's a real beauty ,I've got a Dearmond version ,with 2 pups...From what I'm hearing ,I'd say the positioning of your single is in the sweet spot ,mid point between the mm bridge and p spot...

[Bass Ghost]

Originally Posted by edwinhurwitz

Hell, just get two! I really like the way two pickups interact. I use a blend pot far more than I use tone controls. But, that's just me and my DS equipped Starfire.

Edwin

I'm trying to compromise and keep expenses down...the Canadian Peso's taken a beating in recent times and at $200.00 U.S. each ,that adds up quickly!