Thinking of changing Peavey electronics for Bartolini *Updated w/ test results*

DaveCustomMade · #1 11-20-2006, 09:07 AM

I deleted the other thread I had started because I decided that, after talking to bestbassgear.com, I would rather change out both preamp and pickups.

Anyway, I talked to bestbassgear.com and they told me that the pickups in basses like my Peavey are lesser quality active pickups (having to do with their method of construction), thus needing the power from . . . . . .well, I'll just post what he said:

Quote:

It really isn't an issue of what gets you more out of the boost..it is really just a question of design. The active pickups use less winding in them, and make up for it by needing the extra juice of a battery. Most folks report less nuance from bass to bass with active picups, saying that the pickups tend to characterize the sound of the bass rather than the pickups..

Most folks, myself included, find that often active pickups sound a bit sterile, and not particularily warm.

Anyway, all that to say, if I go with a Bartolini Preamp, I'll probably be better to change out the pickups as well with Bartolinis so I'll know that I'm getting quality all around.

Opinions?

jady · #2 11-20-2006, 09:57 AM

Yup, might as well change em while your in there.

The main diff between active and passive are the # of windings. active pups have less windings, less windings = a wider freq response. higher and lower freqs being sensed up by the pup. however less windings also = lower output so some kind of boost is needed, hence the preamp. The eq boosts are just gravy in the design.

Passive pups have more windings for a higher output so no pre is needed, however more windings = a narrower freq range being sensed by the pups, hence the difference in tone between the 2 is mainly due to the freq range being sensed by the windings.

When a pre is added to passive pups, it is mainly for the tonal character of the pre or for eq capabilities.

I have found IMHO that a good bass, with good wood, and good high quality passive pups have the more unique and complex tone but that is highly subjective and debatable.

manbass · #3 11-20-2006, 11:35 AM

I dont know the tech details of pickups much, but I know what I like, and I replaced stock Tobias Toby Pro active Pre and pups with Barts/NTMB pre and now am doing it to 4 other basses as well. Barts have something soundwise over all other pups I have tried. Are they sterile, hell no. Very transparent. An even flow of sound and texture to my ears.

DaveCustomMade · #4 11-20-2006, 12:34 PM

I did some internet searching on the Peavey Axcelerator and found that many other people have problems with their B and G strings not being as good as the other strings. One guy suggested that the pickups being used for the 5 string may be the same pickups being used for the 4 string bass. . . . thus perhaps the pickups aren't able to accept the string width of the 5 string well enough. It's an interesting thought, one that could have some merrit.

The pickups I'm considering are the J pickups from Bartolini.

59 CBJD L1/LN1 or 59 J1 L1/LN1

bestbassgear.com has these listed under the 5 string section, but when I looked at the J pickups for the 4 string bass, they have a different stock number, but are the same width as the 5 string bass pickups. So I would hope that the J pickups for the 5 string would be able to accomodate the string width of a 5 string fully.

The Penguin · #5 11-20-2006, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveCustomMade

bestbassgear.com has these listed under the 5 string section, but when I looked at the J pickups for the 4 string bass, they have a different stock number, but are the same width as the 5 string bass pickups. So I would hope that the J pickups for the 5 string would be able to accomodate the string width of a 5 string fully.

I think you're just looking at shell width, the bars inside can be different lengths. The Bart catalog will give specs for useable string width.

As for the B & G being soft I have seen 4 string pickups being slapped on 5's causing that problem simply by the coil not being wide enough for the extra string. Another cause could be getting used to flat top pickups where the B & G are naturally louder because they're closer to the string, learning to compensate for that in the way you play and then switching to a more balanced pickup with a curved bar/pole pieces. IIRC Bart will radius the bar under their flat top pickups so they will play like a curved top.

Jerry Ziarko · #6 11-20-2006, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveCustomMade

Anyway, I talked to bestbassgear.com and they told me that the pickups in basses like my Peavey are lesser quality active pickups (having to do with their method of construction), thus needing the power from . . . . . .well, I'll just post what he said:

I'm not buying it. I currently own a Cirrus 5 and just sold another. NOTHING wrong about the tone of those pickups. Strong full lows and plenty of highs.

BbbyBld · #7 11-20-2006, 08:44 PM

Quote:

It really isn't an issue of what gets you more out of the boost..it is really just a question of design. The active pickups use less winding in them, and make up for it by needing the extra juice of a battery. Most folks report less nuance from bass to bass with active picups, saying that the pickups tend to characterize the sound of the bass rather than the pickups..

One of the main reasons for active pickups is for noise reduction. Passive pickups have a higher impedance, which makes them much more susceptible to noise. Peavey active pickups actually have preamps inside of them, which lowers the impedance, and they are also completely shielded. That way, they send as pure a signal as possible to the bass preamp.

The high impedance also makes passive pickups susceptible to loading, which changes the tone of the bass, but some people like that.

As far as "nuances" go, they are probably better preserved with active pickups because they are amplified out of the noise.

FWIW, I prefer passive pickups. I'm not saying not to change the pickups, but it's not like we use active pickups to save money on wire!

DaveCustomMade · #8 11-21-2006, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BbbyBld

One of the main reasons for active pickups is for noise reduction. Passive pickups have a higher impedance, which makes them much more susceptible to noise. Peavey active pickups actually have preamps inside of them, which lowers the impedance, and they are also completely shielded. That way, they send as pure a signal as possible to the bass preamp.

The high impedance also makes passive pickups susceptible to loading, which changes the tone of the bass, but some people like that.

As far as "nuances" go, they are probably better preserved with active pickups because they are amplified out of the noise.

FWIW, I prefer passive pickups. I'm not saying not to change the pickups, but it's not like we use active pickups to save money on wire!

Thank you for posting to my thread. Since you're a Peavey person, what would you suggest in my case? The B string on my bass is definitely not as strong as the others, . . . somewhat the same on the G as well. Is there something I can do to improve the sound? Jerry Ziarko said (above your post) that his Cirrus sounds good. . . . .and I would be the first to agree with him. I took my Peavey to a music store to see if an external EQ would make it sound better. And where it did make it sound somewhat better, it still didn't sound nearly as good as the Cirrus they had on the wall. Perhaps this has to do with the quality of woods that were used in the construction of the Axcellerator 5 string bass, compared to the quality woods used in the Cirrus. . . . . perhaps the pickup manufacturing has been greatly improved over the mid 90's. . . . .perhaps the onboard eq on the Cirrus is vastly improved over the Axcellerator.

So, if you had my bass and were wanting to improve the sound, what would you do? I appreciate your input!

BbbyBld · #9 11-21-2006, 05:22 PM

Sorry, I've never played that bass, so I wouldn't know what to suggest.

**Ryan L.** · #10 11-21-2006, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Ziarko

I'm not buying it. I currently own a Cirrus 5 and just sold another. NOTHING wrong about the tone of those pickups. Strong full lows and plenty of highs.

I'm with you, Jerry. I am very happy with the tones that my Cirrus gets.

DaveCustomMade · #11 11-22-2006, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BbbyBld

Sorry, I've never played that bass, so I wouldn't know what to suggest.

Thanks anyway. I think the best thing for me to do, then, is do what I feel will make this a better sounding bass. Bartolini replacement.

DaveCustomMade · #12 11-22-2006, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan L.

I'm with you, Jerry. I am very happy with the tones that my Cirrus gets.

Believe me, . . . . if my bass sounded like a Cirrus, this thread wouldn't even exist!!!!!!!

+1
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Heck. . . . +10 !!!!

DaveCustomMade · #13 11-28-2006, 11:46 AM

Did a test on this bass unplugged and the B string sounds like it is fine. Seems to have the same presence as the other strings. Plugged in, . . . . the volume of the B is noticeably less, and a bit muddy sounding.

I did some measuring to find out WHICH pickups would work best, since Peavey has their own design and size, and with those side bump screw down design, I will have to go with the J style of Bartolini, because they also have the side bumps, and they are the exact length of the Peavey. Now, they ARE less in width, so that means I'll have to do a ramp between them, probably make it out of Ebony. It will hide rest of the route from the original pickups, and will give me added help.

Just have to save up the $300 for it. Until then, I just won't get what I want, tonally, out of this bass.

DaveCustomMade · #14 12-02-2006, 12:50 PM

Will start a new post.

DaveCustomMade · #15 12-13-2006, 07:41 AM

I had mentioned, in another thread, that I was going to be taking this bass to the new church I'm going to in order to see how it sounded through their system. Since this thread is more about the electronics, and what I will say has nothing to do with sustain (which the other thread was about), I decided to post what I discovered here.

Well, the B string didn't sound all that much less in output from the other strings, . . . . . however, the MAIN issue that was discovered was that it was way too bright sounding. It had a "tinty" sound, . . . . . the sound man said it was a "stringy sound". Another bass player was there with his active preamp Fender, and it sounded rich and full in the room. Mine sounded. . . . . . . .

. . . . BTW, I had my Bass eq almost all the way up, and had rolled my Treble eq all the way off.

So what options do I have, before switching out the electronics with all Bartolini? It obviously needs to be warmer and fuller in tone.

62bass · #16 12-13-2006, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveCustomMade

I had mentioned, in another thread, that I was going to be taking this bass to the new church I'm going to in order to see how it sounded through their system. Since this thread is more about the electronics, and what I will say has nothing to do with sustain (which the other thread was about), I decided to post what I discovered here.

Well, the B string didn't sound all that much less in output from the other strings, . . . . . however, the MAIN issue that was discovered was that it was way too bright sounding. It had a "tinty" sound, . . . . . the sound man said it was a "stringy sound". Another bass player was there with his active preamp Fender, and it sounded rich and full in the room. Mine sounded. . . . . . . .

. . . . BTW, I had my Bass eq almost all the way up, and had rolled my Treble eq all the way off.

So what options do I have, before switching out the electronics with all Bartolini? It obviously needs to be warmer and fuller in tone.

Obviously if it's not your strings or how your pickups are set up, the problem is in your bass, either preamp or pickups. I've heard a Cirrus and it certainly doesn't sound like you say yours sounds. Very rich and wide range sound. Not what I like but for sure the equal of many high end basses out there.

If you can't get the preamp or pickups replaced with factory models and you want to keep the bass, then your only options are to replace them with some other brand. There are a lot of good pickups and preamps out there. Everyone will have an opinion on which one is best, but you're the one who has to live with it. Nobody I've read on this or any other forum has ever been able to describe a sound accurately. Try some good active basses in stores and see what you like.

You'll have to search carefully in your area to find the best person to do the work for you. Not all these techs in guitar stores are good. Check with some of the local pro musicians to find out who they use.

DaveCustomMade · #17 12-13-2006, 01:22 PM

Could having your strings too low cause that string-ish tinty sound?

This bass definitely doesn't sound nearly as good as a Cirrus. Just doesn't have that quality of electronics or woods. However, bestbassgear.com has the Bartolini 59 J1 pickups that should warm up the sound considerably. That along with a Bartolini 3.4 preamp should allow for different sounds.

I have someone who hooked up the electronics in my fretless (at a local store) who does a good job, however, the 3.4 comes already wired, just needing the ground and the pups wired up, so I MAY consider doing it myself.

62bass · #18 12-13-2006, 03:46 PM

For sure, if your strings are rattling on the frets from being too low, that'll sound bad. But, distance from strings to pickups can have a marked effect on sound, with some pickups.

As an example--I just got a new Artcore bass. It has a big Ibanez humbucker with giant polepieces. While messing around with the setup I noticed a huge difference when the distance was changed. Fairly close to the strings produced a big bottom with a very strong attack. Just a little bit further away and the bottom thinned out and the top end got very stringy sounding with more upper mids. That's with the factory roundwounds. I'll be changing to Thomastic flats tonight and I imagine I'll have to go through the whole thing again to get the sound I want.

By contrast, my old P bass with Basslines Quarter Pounders aren't nearly as sensitive to distance changes. It's there, but not nearly as much.

But, that doesn't seem to be your problem. There seems to be a fault, either in your pickups, or electronics. Changing everything out should take care of it. Whether or not you like the Barolinis, I can't tell. I've always preferred Basslines myself, but Bartolinis have a large group of supporters.

Good luck.