Tobias Growler pre amplifier problem

[Mr. BassmanPT]

hi,

i have a Tobias Growler (from Gibson) who had a pre amplifier problem.. basically, the bass did not output any sound! as some of you know, Tobias has gone through some bad times a few years ago and i wasn't able to find a replacement for the original pre amplifier.

the reason behind this is because Bartolini designed a specific pre amplifier to match the custom Bartolini pickups of this model (Tobias Growler) and since Tobias was like "over", i could not find the replacement part anywhere!

as a result of this, i had my Tobias in several stores here in Portugal for a total of 2 years. i got tired of this and eventually someone advised me to put EMG pickup and pre amplifier.. so i did.

as you can see in the pictures, the bass lost aesthetically.. the pickup size does not match the cavity of the original Bartolini and both switches were covered with those little plastic covers..

the sound is not bad but it isn't that good either.. because the pre amplifier from EMG (http://www.bestbassgear.com/emg-bqc-control.htm) is supposed to have 2 pickups and i only have one, i can only tune "half" the possibilities. don't know the EMG pickup reference though.

i have been thinking lately what i can do this bass to make it better or at least closer to what it was originally.. i came up with some ideas and i would like to know what your opinions are.

1) get a replacement for the original pre amplifier because it seems Tobias are once again in business.

2) put a second EMG pickup in there. this will require some serious luthery work because of finding space for both pickups. the current cavity will have to be covered in some way.

3) put the original Bartoloni pickup because it is fully functional and make it passive.. but i don't know if it will work.

do i have more options?

i really like this bass even when i know that it is not as good as those pre gibson models.. but even with that in mind, it has great value to me because i had to work really hard to buy it when i was just a kid. i had to wait 3 years to buy the bass because i didn't had a permanent job so this bass really means much to me. in all those years, everytime i went out with my friends, i never spent a single coin. i just wanted this bass that much!

thank you for reading, hope to have some options here.

regards

here is the picture of the EMG pickup in the Bartolini place.

http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/5588/160734.jpg

here is an overall piture of the bass body. it is swamp ash wood in there!

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/6547/160749.jpg

[Rano Bass]

I used to have a bass just like yours. The original preamp is gonna be hard to find because it was a weird custom preamp, like two bartolini NTBT preamps in one and newer Growler models don't use that anymore.
You should have used the original pickup and just replace the preamp with something like an Aguilar OBP-3.
IMO of course.

[Mr. BassmanPT]

the problem is that the store guys weren't able to find a pre amplifier that worked with the pickup.. at least that was what they told me!

[splitcoilsenior]

ayyyyyy My teacher has one of these basses, and guess what? The pre-amp is messed up. Great lookin, and playin bass.....a bit pricey tho.

[alexgeddy]

Hi,

+1 to putting in the original pickup and either the Aggie OBP3, or get the bartolini preamp. either way you won;t have all the flexibility of the original preamp but you should be able to get it to sound good. I believe you can buy the bartolini with a slap contour built in to the volume knob. I have a NTMB I never installed, and it doesn't have the slap countour. Try this website if you are looking for a pre....lot's of good info

http://www.bestbassgear.com/bartolini-preamp.htm

Good luck

[GeoffByrne]

That's a lovely bass.

I'd give John East a ring on the phone about how his pre would work with your original pickup. He's well-known to be very flexible in adapting his electronics for various different pickups.

+44 (0) 1869 343112

If you phone, it's highly likely that Mr East will answer.

[Mr. BassmanPT]

what are the advantages of that pre amp when compared to the other bartolini pre's?

i already spent 400+ euros with the EMG stuff that will be shoved in the basement in exchange with anoter preamp and my old bart!!!

are you sure those bartolini pre's and the aguilar OBP3 work with my pickup? because if it does, i feel cheated by the store guys!!

[Mr. BassmanPT]

Originally Posted by GeoffByrne

That's a lovely bass.

I'd give John East a ring on the phone about how his pre would work with your original pickup. He's well-known to be very flexible in adapting his electronics for various different pickups.

+44 (0) 1869 343112

If you phone, it's highly likely that Mr East will answer.

who is John East?? and what country am i going to call? i might prefer to write an email, i am not very confortable speaking english despite understanding everything.

EDIT: just found out that John East makes pre amps, sorry for my ignorance

[Mr. BassmanPT]

just added this information in my first post..


my EMG pre amp is a BQC and has 2x9V batteries:

http://www.bestbassgear.com/emg-bqc-control.htm

the pickup i cannot tell for sure.

[Mr. BassmanPT]

just wrote an email to gibson asking for help.. i basically made a copy paste of my first post, lets see what they will tell me. i also emailed John East and Bestbassgear asking for help/advice.

the luthier that is building my custom is also aware of this problem, will take his opinion into account in the next few weeks (when my custom build is expected to be finished!).

of course i am still expecting to read more from you, best advice always come from forums like this one so i really want to read more from you guys!

[Mr. BassmanPT]

bump

[mikezimmerman]

I would contact Bartolini (who actually made the original preamp) rather than Gibson. Bart may still have the preamp available, even if it doesn't appear in their current online catalog--it was actually a standard catalog item for a while.

Mike

[Mr. BassmanPT]

Originally Posted by mikezimmerman

I would contact Bartolini (who actually made the original preamp) rather than Gibson. Bart may still have the preamp available, even if it doesn't appear in their current online catalog--it was actually a standard catalog item for a while.

Mike

it seems that the only way to contact Bartolini is by phone or fax.. at least in the contacts page there is no email!! do you know an email address?

http://www.bartolini.net/contact.htm

[mikezimmerman]

No, I don't know an email address--if they don't make it easy to find, you're not likely to get great response even if you do find one. You could probably go through one of the international distributors, though:
http://www.bartolini.net/salesinfo.htm#International

Come to think of it, you might also contact Zon--they use the same preamp, or something very similar on their Sonus Studio model. (They call it a ZB6 preamp--I don't remember if that's the original name) http://www.zonguitars.com/zonguitars/sonusstudio4.html

The original Bart pickup is actually set up like two pickups in a single casing--complete with separate outputs for each, I think--so you could put the original pickup back and use any preamp (Bartolini or otherwise) designed to work with two pickups. You just wouldn't have the separate bass/treble controls and mid contour switch for each pickup half that the orginal preamp.

Mike

[Mr. BassmanPT]

had a reply from bestbassgear, a really nice guy that gave me several options.. look at his answer.

Hi Cesar,

Thanks for your inquiry.

The Tobias Growler is an interesting bass, no doubt about it

You could do multiple things with this, as I see it:

Options that replace the pickup with a MM pickup:

1) Use an EMG MM pickup. This would allow you to continue using your current preamp. This only solves the pickup part. The preamp could be modified to use a separate bass and treble to fill the holes, and remove the blend pot. Four usable knobs would result. For the switch holes, you could put in a mute switch and a coil tap. If you wanted to do the coil tap, you could use the EMG-MMTW.



2) Use an EMG MM pickup, with another pickup in the neck position..You could use your current soapbar, or buy a J, P or MM for the neck. This solution would allow you to retain the blend pot, and just add the switches as above....and give you more of a sonic landscape.



3) Use your original MM Bartolini pickup with a new preamp. This is a good solution, though you wouldn't have the independent EQ controls. You could use an Aguilar preamp, that we could wire as vol-treb-mid-bass with an active/passive switch and a mid freq selector switch. You would combine the output of the two sides of the quad coil pickup into one (as per normal wiring actually).


4) getting a new original preamp....not sure...I have tried, but was unsuccessful.

Take a look at these, and let me know if you have any questions.

what do you think? will ask about the ZON preamp and see what they tell me!

edit: the zon bartolini preamp is designed to work with two duncan pickups while my bartolini is a singlepickup.. will try my luck anyway, thanks for this tip mate

[mikezimmerman]

#3 is going to get you closest to the original.

Mike

[Mr. BassmanPT]

i don't understand what he meant with this:

though you wouldn't have the independent EQ controls

can you help me?



i also have another question, is the Aguilar fully compatible with the Bartolini single pickup? or will i be limited like i am with the current EMG pre amp? because i can only equalize "half the possibilities" because the pre amp is supposed to work with 2 pickups and i only have one!


i am also curious why haven't BESTBASSGEAR suggested any Bartolini pre amps? is the Aguilar the best option?

i am looking to have an "excellent sound", if that means i should go with Aguilar or Bartolini i don't know so i would really be thankful if anyone can give me a opinion here! i know that "excellent sound" is vague but i want the quality to be within the Bartolini pre amp - Bartolini pickup standards or the Aguilar pre amp - Bartolini pickup standards (and this means it will have to sound pretty good either way!!).. did that made sense?

also of note is that i do not mind to loose the "almost infinite" setups/sounds the original custom Bartolini was able to perform! if this new setup requires to be simpler, it is OK as long as it sounds "excellent".

[mikezimmerman]

Originally Posted by cmaranhao

i don't understand what he meant with this:

Though you won't have the independent EQ controls

can you help me?

The original Growler preamp had a separate stacked bass/treble control and separate midrange contour switch for each of the two pickups that are in the MM pickup housing.

i also have another question, is the Aguilar fully compatible with the Bartolini single pickup? or will i be limited like i am with the current EMG pre amp? because i can only equalize "half the possibilities" because the pre amp is supposed to work with 2 pickups and i only have one!

Actually, as I've pointed out, the original Bart is actually set up like two individual pickups within a single housing. You could use the blend control from a typical 2-pickup wiring harness (Aguilar, Bartolini, etc.) to pan from one half of the pickup to the other.

But that has nothing to do with "equalizing half the possibilities"--for most preamps wiring harnesses, the EQ comes after the blend control, so it works exactly the same way whether you have one pickup or two.

That's what was so cool about the original Growler preamp--it actually had separate EQs for each of the two pickups (even though both pickups were in the same pickup shell).

i am also curious why haven't BESTBASSGEAR suggested any Bartolini pre amps? is the Aguilar the best option?

You'd have to ask Brian. I'm not a big fan of the Aguilars myself, but a lot of people really like them. You will have to choose which you think would suit you best--there are tons of reviews and comparisons of Aguilar and Bart preamps here in the forum.

Mike

[Mr. BassmanPT]

why don't you like Aguilar? just curiosity...

[mikezimmerman]

The Nordstrand SC5 I had built came with the Aguilar 3-band, and I was just never comfortable with the way the EQ sounded when boosted. I'm probably just too used to Bartolini...

Mike