Tonal Similarity Between Bart Equipped Basses

[Bobster]

I have a question regarding sound characteristics in similarly equipped basses.

I have a Lakland 55-02 w/Barts that I absolutely love the tone of. That said, I've starting looking for a 4-string bass with a similar sound. I realize that a 44-02 w/Barts is the easy answer, but I'm wondering if any low-cost basses are a fairly close match.

For example, used Ibanez w/Barts, Cort Elrick RB4s, Dean Edge, or even Bart pickups/preamp I can use to get that tone inexpensively. Do they sound similiar at all?

Any comparisons will help, and be appreciated.

Thanks!

[luknfur]

Originally Posted by Bobster

I have a question regarding sound characteristics in similarly equipped basses.

I have a Lakland 55-02 w/Barts that I absolutely love the tone of. That said, I've starting looking for a 4-string bass with a similar sound. I realize that a 44-02 w/Barts is the easy answer, but I'm wondering if any low-cost basses are a fairly close match.

For example, used Ibanez w/Barts, Cort Elrick RB4s, Dean Edge, or even Bart pickups/preamp I can use to get that tone inexpensively. Do they sound similiar at all?

Any comparisons will help, and be appreciated.

Thanks!

FWIW:

To my knowledge you can take 3 consecutively made basses of the same model off the line of any maker and they will all sound different acoustically because woods and the process used to construct a bass are not very controllable. In other words you're probably about as likely to get Fender (whatever) that acoustically sounds like a given Lakland as another same model Lakland.

Unlike a bass, in my experience of having like pups is they are accurate enough to be considered alike. Same with electronics.

If for whatever reason you can't buy the existing bass that puts out the sound you want, the next best option is to duplicate the electronics and strings.

I'm not sure why someone would want two basses that sound alike though.

[Bobster]

I agree that each instrument will be unique, I just want to see if all Bartolini-equipped basses are similiar.

As to why, I'm just more comfortable on a 4-string than a 5-string; but there are times when that B-string is very convenient. So, I just want to have that deep, "velvet fog" sound available in a 4-stringer too.

My other main 4-string has BassLines, and a brighter, more Fender/MusicMan tone range.

[luknfur]

Originally Posted by Bobster

I agree that each instrument will be unique, I just want to see if all Bartolini-equipped basses are similiar.

As to why, I'm just more comfortable on a 4-string than a 5-string; but there are times when that B-string is very convenient. So, I just want to have that deep, "velvet fog" sound available in a 4-stringer too.

My other main 4-string has BassLines, and a brighter, more Fender/MusicMan tone range.

FWIW:

There's a Bart signature tone that most Barts have but not all. Only other pup I've heard similar is Lane Poors (SD and their Ric and Modulus MM replacements aside). That's solo, which can get blurred to lost in the mix depending on the situation, very much like the ring of round wounds. Pretty much all tones are that way to some degree.

[The Penguin]

Originally Posted by Bobster

I agree that each instrument will be unique, I just want to see if all Bartolini-equipped basses are similiar.

Not even close, sure it's repeated here many times but I don't believe it. I have 5 Bart equipped basses right now that I've gigged with and have had many more, they all sound different. Saying Bart has a signature sound is kinda like saying food from Safeway tastes different from food from Vons (2 different supermarkets for those not getting the reference).

Bartolini makes a huge variety of pickups with numerous variations on each style and doesn't do anything that would make them all sound similar. They do however all have a similar look and that's enough for many to assume or simply repeat they all have a similar sound, but they don't.

[luknfur]

Originally Posted by The Penguin

Not even close...

FWIW:

Interesting take which in part may be due to the fact we’re different people with different experiences - not to mention probably different Barts (bunch of them out there).

I don’t think I’ve had any of the CB series but I’ve had some 15-20 different 4 string Barts of the others (J’s, P’s, Soaps, MM’s, Rics). The signature tone arrived not so much from comparing Barts to Barts as Barts to a mix of some 100 different pups from different manufacturers: Not so much apples to apples but apples to oranges to pears to etc. It wasn’t intentional at any rate, just apparent over time - so no conscious bias in terms of appearance.

In addition in the majority of my experiences the pup was the only variable in the chain. Most of it was through the same bass (same acoustic properties) with pup ran straight to the jack (no variable intervening electronics), using the same strings, and ran to the same amp so the chain was stripped down bass > amp.

One of the marvels of music: change one variable and you change everything. Change two and you don’t know what the source of the difference is.

Probably irrelevant at any rate cause Bobster will likely have his own take anyway, as well he should.
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Don’t go buying anyone’s answers if you’re question was for free (GooseCreek Symphony).

[thejohnkim]

In my experience of using Bart equipped Pedulla's and Bart equipped Zon's for long periods of time each. and finding confirmation from multiple reviewers from various sources. I tink that there is a 'Bart' sound when you compare them to other pickup manufacturers. I think the 'bart' sound from what i'm hearing is a smoothed over deep + rolled off highs sound.

I think the bart equipped Ibanez basses are worth looking at but it'll sound very vanilla compared to your lakland, even though they have barts, as i still use an ibanez as a backup bass. no long term experiences with any other brands

[12bass]

Originally Posted by thejohnkim

I think the 'bart' sound from what i'm hearing is a smoothed over deep + rolled off highs sound.

I would agree for the most part about the characteristic somewhat veiled Bartolini sound. However, the CB and CX pickups are supposed to have more extended highs. I haven't heard the CB, but I have found that the CX definitely has more clarity in the top, though not near as much as a Q-Tuner. That said, I don't find that Bartolinis color the sound of the instrument as drastically as EMGs.

[The Penguin]

Maybe Bart is known for a particular sound because that is what they are often used for. For example most Ferraris are red. But it wouldn't make sense to say I don't want a Ferrari because I don't want a red car, just get a blue one.

So if Bart sells mostly darker pickups some assume all Barts sound dark and then won't consider one of their brighter pickups which aren't dark. Like most makers they have a very wide range of models available.

[12bass]

Originally Posted by The Penguin

So if Bart sells mostly darker pickups some assume all Barts sound dark and then won't consider one of their brighter pickups which aren't dark. Like most makers they have a very wide range of models available.

Considering that my Q-Tuner and Lane Poors are both brighter and more open sounding than my Bartolini CX (which is supposed to be their "brightest" coil type), I'd have to say that in my experience, overall, Bartolini tends to make darker sounding pickups. That said, even if a bit rolled off in the highs, they do sound fairly natural and don't impart too much of their own character to the instrument.

BTW, I originally ordered the CX in an attempt to get close to the Lane Poor sound. IMO, even though brighter than Bartolini's standard models, the CX still sounds somewhat muted in the highs, especially compared to the extended harmonic response of the Q-Tuner.

[sincity]

I think you need to add preamps in the equation here, and how they add or take away from a Bart tone.

I have owned & own a few Bart equipped basses such as Elrick, Modulus Genesis, Modulus Q4 & Q5.

IMO, Bart soapbars and single coils are much different in tone, but when comparing Bart single coils to single coils and soapbars to soapbars, I think their is a signature tone. The wild card is when you pair these pups with either a Bart NTMB preamp, Aguilar OBP-1 or other preamps.

You then get a wider spectrum of tones from one to the other, and start to dilute the Bart tone a bit.

[luknfur]

FWIW:

I had the Bart NTMB, Aggie OBP-3, and EMG BQC all mounted as outbaords preamps so I could use them with any pups - AND - see exactly what effect they had on tone. So I could not only compare the bass tone with and without them but compare them to each other using the same pups/bass.

Aside from control of individual bands, they all just basically boost/cut the single and sounded alike. No surprise, aftermarkets would be designed to work with basically any pups so you'd want them to be very flexible (ie nuetral with minimal coloration) if you made them to sell.

Back to more than one variable, if you change more than one thing at a time you don't know what's doing what. And if you can't do a side by side a comparison it's pretty useless cause what you're comparing is the current tone to your memory of what it was before.

Something like a Spector I don't know about cause haven't had one. If the pre is designed to go with a certain pups then you might want to gear it a certain way cause you're not mass marketing it.

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Of all liars, memory is the most convincing

[The Penguin]

Originally Posted by 12bass

Considering that my Q-Tuner and Lane Poors are both brighter and more open sounding than my Bartolini CX (which is supposed to be their "brightest" coil type), I'd have to say that in my experience, overall, Bartolini tends to make darker sounding pickups. That said, even if a bit rolled off in the highs, they do sound fairly natural and don't impart too much of their own character to the instrument.

Well you've tried one, can't ask for anymore than that.

[The Penguin]

Originally Posted by luknfur

FWIW:

I had the Bart NTMB, Aggie OBP-3, and EMG BQC all mounted as outbaords preamps so I could use them with any pups - AND - see exactly what effect they had on tone. So I could not only compare the bass tone with and without them but compare them to each other using the same pups/bass.

Aside from control of individual bands, they all just basically boost/cut the single and sounded alike.

That's my experience, I've met many people who swear individual companies have a unique sound. I've never met anyone who could tell me what preamp I have in a bass by listening. I tend to discount most preamp mojo from anyone who can't explain what unity gain buffer means

Of all liars, memory is the most convincing

Nice quote