Tone cap with tone pot on full

**Coolhandjjl** · #1 06-04-2011, 08:05 AM

I recently read that if the tone pot is on full, the tone cap isn't really doing anything, IOW, it only comes into play as you dial down the pot?

True?

rymiraflores · #2 06-04-2011, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coolhandjjl

I recently read that if the tone pot is on full, the tone cap isn't really doing anything, IOW, it only comes into play as you dial down the pot?

True?

Yes 100%...and as you dial back the tone it filters the high frequencies and depending what value of capacitor some mid and low too.

**line6man** · #3 06-04-2011, 09:59 AM

When the tone pot is up, the cap is essentially removed from the circuit. Depending on the pot value, however, some signal still passes through.

**Coolhandjjl** · #4 06-04-2011, 12:08 PM

New Ric basses are spec'd to have all 330K pots. My Ric 2009 4003 was originally wired as VT/VT, with both the 330K spec'd vol & neck tone pot actually metered at 273.

*The bridge tone pot is really a push/pull pot (to bypass a vintage sounding circuit, not applicable to the discussion here). Those push/pulls are spec'd at 500K, metering at 530K.

I replaced both the tone pots with some 195K pots from an older 4003, moved the push/pull pot to the bridge volume position, and matched the neck volume pot with another exact same push/pull pot (but with nothing connected to its push/pull leads) I swamped each of those 530K push/pull pots with a 470K resistor to get me a two 254K pots in each vol position.

So my tone and vol pots are all now less in value than when the bass was original. I also put in .064 tone caps as an experiment instead of the stock .047's. When I tried my bass, it sounded deeper, which I thought was due to the different caps, but after reading here, it seems the lower pot values are what made the tone deeper.

walterw · #5 06-04-2011, 12:08 PM

You might hear a slight difference between one cap value and another with a 250k tone pot on "10" (if you're a cork-sniffer type), but with a 500k tone, I don't believe it for a minute.

**Coolhandjjl** · #6 06-04-2011, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walterw

You might hear a slight difference between one cap value and another with a 250k tone pot on "10" (if you're a cork-sniffer type), but with a 500k tone, I don't believe it for a minute.

Both tone pots are now 195K per the modifications I did. The bridge tone pot went from 530 to 195, the neck tone pot from 273 to 195.

**line6man** · #7 06-04-2011, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coolhandjjl

So my tone and vol pots are all now less in value than when the bass was original. I also put in .064 tone caps as an experiment instead of the stock .047's. When I tried my bass, it sounded deeper, which I thought was due to the different caps, but after reading here, it seems the lower pot values are what made the tone deeper.

No, it's the change in capacitance.
The pot value only affects the amplitude of the cut, and a higher value functions identically to a lower value from 0 Ohms to whatever the lower value was, then further removes the cap from the circuit above that resistance.
A 0.064uF cap (That is an odd value, do you mean 0.068uF?) will have a lower frequency cutoff point than a 0.047uF.

Quote:

Originally Posted by walterw

You might hear a slight difference between one cap value and another with a 250k tone pot on "10" (if you're a cork-sniffer type), but with a 500k tone, I don't believe it for a minute.

IME, With a 500k volume and tone on a Jazz bass, you can hear a very slight difference with the tone bypassed, but only when the volume is on full. Roll it down a touch and there is no difference.

**Coolhandjjl** · #8 06-04-2011, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by line6man

......(That is an odd value, do you mean 0.068uF?).....

Yes, you are right.

So even though tone pots are all the way full, the new caps are coming into play and contributing to my new deep tone?

**line6man** · #9 06-04-2011, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coolhandjjl

Yes, you are right.

So even though tone pots are all the way full, the new caps are coming into play and contributing to my new deep tone?

Well, you're lowering the resistance at the maximum setting, so you're getting more cut than if you had a higher value pot.

walterw · #10 06-04-2011, 01:03 PM

I wouldn't say "deep"; the lower-value pots are making things a little darker, or smoother, as in reducing the highs a little. They're not adding any actual bass.

**Coolhandjjl** · #11 06-04-2011, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walterw

I wouldn't say "deep"; the lower-value pots are making things a little darker, or smoother, as in reducing the highs a little. They're not adding any actual bass.

Right!

And Line6man, I think I understand that.

I read something a while back here that makes total sense: (paraphrase)You have to look at the whole system, as everything plays off each other. Can't pin it to any one thing.