Trick out my Fodera

[KJung]

Originally Posted by allexcosta

Maybe we have different opinions on what's THE classic gospel tone... To me it's a slight mid-scooped Jazz on steroids kinda thing...

I think this is what caused all the churn in this thread. Based on the OP's follow-up comment, I think (as I interpreted in my original post) he was using the 'Gospel' term as a proxy for the general tone you are describing.

Hence, the thread went in a zillion different directions, from 'use the Fodera and be unique' to 'modify the Fodera' to 'buy a Smith', to 'you can play anything in a Gospel setting', etc. All these comments are correct depending on if you interpret Gospel as a genre or as a loose proxy for an aggressive, slightly scooped, very treble present tone.

Again, based on the OP's follow-up, he seems to be looking for a tone that is a bit more upper mid and treble present (and as many of us realize, just cranking the treble pot ain't the same thing) than what he is achieving now.

However, if we interpret his 'Gospel' descriptor as a whole genre of music versus what I believe was his shorthand for a crispy, modern tone, this thread will continue to shift and slide in a zillion different directions.


IMO... really... IMO

Edit: I'm still staying out of the neck through/bolt-on discussion. That's a LONG road to a small house IMO!

[allexcosta]

Originally Posted by KJung

I think this is what caused all the churn in this thread. Based on the OP's follow-up comment, I think (as I interpreted in my original post) he was using the 'Gospel' term as a proxy for the general tone you are describing.

Maybe it'd be easier if we could explain what we understand as "gospel tone". Guess I'll add my example:

http://members.cox.net/caesarbass/LE...%20Boosted.mp3

Neck-thrus won't ever sound like this...

[chicagodoubler]

Based on KJung's argument, the most important thing for OP to establish is what specific sound he's hungry for, and how to achieve it with electronics. This little piggy already suggested messing with technique and feel before touching a knob, but if you absolutely feel the need to turn a knob, and the ones for launching the spaceshuttle on the bass aren't working, I stand behind my previous advice of using an outboard hardware EQ with selectable frequencies.

Happy stupid green hat day!

Oh yeah let's PLEASE not get into bolt on vs neck through. Plenty of examples of great players in nearly every genre using both.

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by allexcosta

I'm convinced that no one can achieve the classic signature "gospel tone" with any bass that's not a bolt-on... Set-neck Foderas would sound great, but wouldn't cope THE "gospel tone", doesn't matter what pickups or preamp you put on them...

You're obviously entitled to that opinion. If Fred Hammond didn't have a classic signature "gospel tone" IYO, cool. Or Terrence Palmer. Or Maurice. Or Thaddeus Tribbett. For years Ken Smith was THE classic gospel tone.



To the larger issue, gospel players are no less prone to sheep type behaviour than any other genre, if anything they may be moreso IMO. By that I meant the number of people who see what someone they like is playing and think that's why they sound like they do so they buy the same bass. I'm not saying that's automatically a bad thing but it also isn't automatically a good one either.

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by allexcosta

Maybe it'd be easier if we could explain what we understand as "gospel tone". Guess I'll add my example:

http://members.cox.net/caesarbass/LE...%20Boosted.mp3

Neck-thrus won't ever sound like this...

If you say so...

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by minuseri

Boy... Where do I begin. Who knew this type of thread would generate so much discussion. Nice!

First gentleman, I consider myself to be an average player. What I lack in musicianship I believe I make up for with a pretty well developed ear and my overall musical experiences (playing various instruments,writing, producing, engineering, etc.). From my earlier playing days which started almost 25 years ago, I have always been drawn to TONE. To this day TONE is probably the most important characteristic I look for when listening to any musician on any instrument.

I am very much aware of the different basses I could use that would, without question give me the tone that many of you have spoken of in this thread (MTD, Smith, Lakland, etc). What sparked me to write this thread was the fact that I have invested a lot of money in these Foderas and I would like to begin to use these basses more in various settings. 4 - 5 years ago I was playing a lot of fusion and less gospel which allowed me to use my Foderas often. Now, I find myself playing mostly gospel and R&B and I still want to use those bases. As I stated in an earlier post, Fodera is not the "be all, end all." I just like the way most of them feel. That said, I have found with all of the Foderas I have owned a great growl and burp vibe. I also appreciate the articulate nature of the bass especially in the upper register. I have struggled with trying to roll in more of a "scooped" EQ pattern where the bottom end is tight and not contrived and the high end is not tingy and almost too thin. So, I am to trying maintain the nice burp that is characteristic in most Foderas while being able to expand to that nice clean "scooped" eq pattern when needed ( I know, Utopian).

I believe that by achieving this type of versatility with the bass, I will be happy with the tone in multiple musical settings.

Again great points for me to consider. I appreciate the feedback from everyone. I would agree with one major point that was made. There are many variables that go into creating tone (strings, amps, cabs, etc). While you can't look at this thing in isolation, you still have to start by eliminating / adding one variable at a time to find out what works well together and what feels and sounds good to your ear.

Let's get together then... my Anthony Jackson has the HAZ pre and Lane Poors. Ash body, Maple neck, Ebony board. I don't know how different the woods are from what you have but I'd guess my electronics aren't the same.

And you're obviously not an average player.

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by Brad Johnson

To the larger issue, gospel players are no less prone to sheep type behaviour than any other genre, if anything they may be moreso IMO. By that I meant the number of people who see what someone they like is playing and think that's why they sound like they do so they buy the same bass. I'm not saying that's automatically a bad thing but it also isn't automatically a good one either.

I give this a big +1. I honestly feel that really fancy coffe table style boutiques tend to be big in Gospel because the look and elaborateness of these instruments fit the overall aesthetic of the genre moreso than any purely musical reason. A lot of gospel players like fancy and elaborate basses because they look cool, plain and simple. That is not to say that the basses don't sound great and the players aren't monsters because many of them are. That does not reduce the fact that many of these guys like fancy basses for the look just as much, if not more than they like them for the the sound and playability.

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by Dr. Cheese

I give this a big +1. I honestly feel that really fancy coffe table style boutiques tend to be big in Gospel because the look and elaborateness of these instruments fit the overall aesthetic of the genre moreso than any purely musical reason. A lot of gospel players like fancy and elaborate basses because they look cool, plain and simple. That is not to say that the basses don't sound great and the players aren't monsters because many of them are. That does not reduce the fact that many of these guys like fancy basses for the look just as much, if not more than they like them for the the sound and playability.

+1 on appearances.

And for many, their churches buy the basses for them... not that there's anything wrong with that.

[chicagodoubler]

Oh yeah the look is important in gospel!!!!!!!!!

Also the gear fetish syndrome. I've done every type of church gig you can do but have never seen congregation or musicians geek out over musical equipment like in the gospel scene.

Another angle: gospel players play in church for people they generally trust ( whole different discussion...) in a booze free environment with no drunk chicks clamoring for Brown Eyed Girl. I simply will NOT bring anything that costs much more than a grand to a bar anymore. Too many bad experiences. In church you can bring a 5k bass and the only thing you have to worry about is gravity. On a cover band gig I'm amazed if I get home without beer spilled on *something.*

One more +1 on an end to bolt on vs neck through insanity, esp in gospel... but fwiw I've never owned a neck through bass but will take anyone's Ken Smith that they're tired of!


I'm forgetting the specifics- Didn't Vinnie work in Ken's shop at one time? Based on that, and the history of Smiths in gospel, I'd think the family relation alone would make a Fodera perfect for gospel...

[minuseri]

Brad, Lets definitely hook up. That sounds like a killer combination. I think the Lane Poors are drastically underrated pick ups. One of the Foderas I am getting from TB has Lane Poor pick ups. I will be trying this configuration before I tweek any of my other Foderas.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by minuseri

Brad, Lets definitely hook up. That sounds like a killer combination. I think the Lane Poors are drastically underrated pick ups. One of the Foderas I am getting from TB has Lane Poor pick ups. I will be trying this configuration before I tweek any of my other Foderas.

The Lane's sound GREAT in the couple Fodera's I've played with them. One of the biggest mistakes I ever made in ordering a bass is letting Joey at Fodera talk me out of the Lane's and trying the new (at the time) Seymour Dual Coils. Big mistake IMO, and the Lane's became unavailable soon after. The are very even from top to bottom and smooth as heck.

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by minuseri

Brad, Lets definitely hook up. That sounds like a killer combination. I think the Lane Poors are drastically underrated pick ups. One of the Foderas I am getting from TB has Lane Poor pick ups. I will be trying this configuration before I tweek any of my other Foderas.

Cool. It's a big bass but you'll hear what's going on with it. I lucked into finding my favorite Fodera combination.

I agree... Lane Poors in the right bass are very underrated.

[Dr. Cheese]

Here is a nice gospel player who uses a pretty dark tone to great effect. I bet that Fodera could nail this tone pretty easily:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtYcM...eature=related

[Kwesi]

Originally Posted by 4StringTheorist

Sell/trade for an MTD 535.

+1. Get yourself an MTD, a Ken Smith, or even a Yamaha TRB and you'll be fine. But, in an effort to actually respond to the topic - I'd maybe for for some Norstrand Fat Stacks and get a Bartolini or John East Preamp in there.

I think the biggest part of the equation would be the pickups. While the preamp is important, with the right pickups you can EQ a good gospel tone with anything. My friend does it all the time with his Squier Affinity 5 and you'd be hard pressed to find another bass that does it as well.

I specifically picked the Nordstrand's because, 1) they come in a shape that would fit and existing dual-coil (though I'm not 100% on whether they'd fit yours or not) and, 2) the pickup is fundamentally a single coil but the dummy pickup (for the hum-canceling) and extra winding would give you the deep, dark, but slightly modern tone you want for Gospel. Think Marcus Miller or Tal Wilkenfeld and you're basically there.

That said I think a Fodera could get a great gospel tone without modification because there really is no "gospel tone" to begin with. My first two suggestions, the MTD 535 and the Ken Smith sound TOTALLY different but work very well the environment. Just find a gospel bass tone that you really like and try to approximate it - you may be surprised with your findings. Though I'm in the same boat as a lot of people in this thread who find gutting a Fodera to be beyond comprehension, I honestly think that with a little EQ fiddling you can find an amazing sound.

P.S. a maple or alder body would help that tone along a little.

[KeithPas]

Originally Posted by Dr. Cheese

I have played Gospel with a Ken Smith, Music Man Stingray H & HH, Spector, Yamaha, Alembic, Peavey, Fender, import MTD, G&L (USA & Tribute) among others. Honestly, I have to agree with Brad in the sense that learning more about Gospel, and listening to more Gospel has done more for my playing than any change of bass.

My current 2008 Fender Jazz V works beautifully. It works well passive, but my Sadowsky preamp gives it a nice modern edge when I want, which is most of the time!

Much like the good Doctor here I have played gospel music on no fewer than 30 different basses and I have always managed to dial in a decent tone. I do not have any experience with Fodera's but if you have three and you are looking for a different vibe maybe trading for an MTD, a Lakland or a Smith is the way to go.

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by Kwesi

+1. Get yourself an MTD, a Ken Smith, or even a Yamaha TRB and you'll be fine. But, in an effort to actually respond to the topic - I'd maybe for for some Norstrand Fat Stacks and get a Bartolini or John East Preamp in there.

I think the biggest part of the equation would be the pickups. While the preamp is important, with the right pickups you can EQ a good gospel tone with anything. My friend does it all the time with his Squier Affinity 5 and you'd be hard pressed to find another bass that does it as well.

I specifically picked the Nordstrand's because, 1) they come in a shape that would fit and existing dual-coil (though I'm not 100% on whether they'd fit yours or not) and, 2) the pickup is fundamentally a single coil but the dummy pickup (for the hum-canceling) and extra winding would give you the deep, dark, but slightly modern tone you want for Gospel. Think Marcus Miller or Tal Wilkenfeld and you're basically there.

That said I think a Fodera could get a great gospel tone without modification because there really is no "gospel tone" to begin with. My first two suggestions, the MTD 535 and the Ken Smith sound TOTALLY different but work very well the environment. Just find a gospel bass tone that you really like and try to approximate it - you may be surprised with your findings. Though I'm in the same boat as a lot of people in this thread who find gutting a Fodera to be beyond comprehension, I honestly think that with a little EQ fiddling you can find an amazing sound.

P.S. a maple or alder body would help that tone along a little.

Mike Pope responded in this thread. I'd bet he doesn't find the idea of tweaking a Fodera incomprehensible. Neither did Bona.

[RBrownBass]

Who on Earth underrates Lane Poors?

[allexcosta]

Originally Posted by Auriaprottu

Who on Earth underrates Lane Poors?

[REAPER52]

Maybe a call to Fodera , explain what your looking for. Get the opinion of the pro's. They ought to know how to get the sound your looking for from their instrument .

[conebeckham]

I don't wanna hijack this thread, but you guys obviously know the Gospel bass scene well.....I know nothing about it. I've heard the name Andrew Gouche, but otherwise it's a complete blind spot for me.

Recommend me some recordings?