Villex & Nordy Integration...

[speyer]

Hey folks... I need some help from the wiring experts here.

I've got a pair of Villex soapbar pups showing up today (bought them here) and I want to wire them up to my passive/active nordy system currently in my Reverend bass.

So, I want to EITHER: Replace the tone knob in the Nordy with the 'passive mid' knob that comes with the Villex pups. This is assuming I would get all the tonal variation I would need from the villex mid control and would not miss the tone knob (which I rarely use anyways).

OR: Install the pups and villex mid control before the nordy pre altogether... and keep the tone knob. This would mean I would end up with yet another knob on my bass

I'm at a complete loss as to how to get this done because my expertise is limited to only 'reading' schematics and not understanding them Any opinions and or help is much appreciated! thanks in advance.

-pat

Here is a wiring schematic showing how my nordy is wired (did it myself) and a schematic from Villex.

[SGD Lutherie]

The high frequency control on the Villex is just like the passive tone knob on the active setup.

[tubby.twins]

Originally Posted by SGD Lutherie

The high frequency control on the Villex is just like the passive tone knob on the active setup.

Agreed. You will only need one or the other.

The mid cut knob on the Villex pickups is another matter. I find that I don't generally use the Villex mid cut circuit in most cases. It's nice to dial down the mids a bit if I slap, but I usually don't. If you won't be doing a lot of mid cut or want to have the Nordstrand pre-amp handle all the tone shaping for the midrange, you can probably omit the Villex mid circuit. It should be sufficient to tape off the related conductors (white and red, I think) and leave them unconnected.

I've heard reports (second-hand) than Villex himself recommends the mid circuit stay connected all the time, for reasons of stability. If you share this concern, you can probably follow his schematic but substitute a high value resistor (50K ohms or greater) instead of the mid control pot. This would provide a constant resistance between the white and red leads, whose job it is to bleed certain mid frequencies to ground, much like a passive tone control for the treble frequencies. If the resistance is high enough, you won't hear any loss in midrange frequencies.

[speyer]

Originally Posted by SGD Lutherie

The high frequency control on the Villex is just like the passive tone knob on the active setup.

Sorry for the confusion.. I'm aware of that.

I am however uncertain about the function of the mid pot that comes supplied with the pickups. Doesn't it operate some kind of passive circuit imbedded in the epoxy of the pup? Or am I mistaken?

[SGD Lutherie]

Originally Posted by speyer

Doesn't it operate some kind of passive circuit imbedded in the epoxy of the pup? Or am I mistaken?

Yes. Just read what tubby.twins wrote. He's familiar with that setup.

[speyer]

Originally Posted by tubby.twins

Agreed. You will only need one or the other.

The mid cut knob on the Villex pickups is another matter. I find that I don't generally use the Villex mid cut circuit in most cases. It's nice to dial down the mids a bit if I slap, but I usually don't. If you won't be doing a lot of mid cut or want to have the Nordstrand pre-amp handle all the tone shaping for the midrange, you can probably omit the Villex mid circuit. It should be sufficient to tape off the related conductors (white and red, I think) and leave them unconnected.

I've heard reports (second-hand) than Villex himself recommends the mid circuit stay connected all the time, for reasons of stability. If you share this concern, you can probably follow his schematic but substitute a high value resistor (50K ohms or greater) instead of the mid control pot. This would provide a constant resistance between the white and red leads, whose job it is to bleed certain mid frequencies to ground, much like a passive tone control for the treble frequencies. If the resistance is high enough, you won't hear any loss in midrange frequencies.

I think that answers my question! Thanks... I'll just put a high value resistor in there and let the nordy control the mids.

I can't wait to get these pups installed. Really curious to see what I've been missing! . Thanks guys.

[speyer]

Im wiring up my bass and have some questions...

So, by looking at the Villex schematic the Black wire is + and the bare wire is - with these pickups correct?

I have decided to use the 50k pot as a resistor because I don't have a resistor to keep it all connected as suggested, and just hide it in the control cavity.

So, what do the white and red wires have to connect to? And I assume the - (bare) doesn't come into play because I'm not 'bleeding' any frequencies to ground?

So, both reds together and both whites together onto which two contacts of the 50k pot? Or am I way off?

thanks for the help!

[tubby.twins]

Hi, the Villex schematic above should help answer most of these questions. The yellow lines represent the white wires, while the grey lines represent the bare wires. You are correct, the black wire is the signal output while the bare wire is the ground.

One of the white wires (pick either one) needs to connect to the unified output lug(s) of the volume pot(s) or blend pot. The corresponding red wire on that same pickup connects to one lug of the 50k midrange pot. The other pickup's white wire connects to the other lug of the 50k midrange pot, and the remaining red wire connects to the common ground.

This basically forms a circuit between the post-volume output and the ground. From the perspective of the red and white wires, of the pickups acts as a capacitor and the other acts as an inductor. The position of the midrange pot determines the level of resistance in this circuit - as the resistance decreases, more of the midrange is cut.

If you decide to keep the midrange pot hidden inside the control cavity, it's probably a good idea to tape everything up so it doesn't accidentally short out any other conductors, pots or lugs (or vice versa). If you follow the diagram from Villex, no midrange frequencies will be cut (i.e bled to ground) when the pot is turned fully clockwise.

[speyer]

Okay thanks, I'll follow the Villex schematic... also, the bass is semi hollow so there's lots of room in the cavity. I'll tape the mid pot up good so it doesn't rattle around.

thanks again for all the help!

[speyer]

SO, I hooked it all up. After plugging it in... I find that the neck pickup is not working properly. sounds super thin and quiet. I check the wiring... it's all good.

Reluctantly, I take it all apart and start trouble shooting the new connections.. now each pickup.

Turns out, one of the pickups is not working as it should. to test them, I connected each pickup one at a time to the same lugs on the volume pot.. sure enough, one of the pickups doesn't work!! It just sounds quiet, thin and lifeless.

These pickups were clearly brand and new never used but purchased second hand... I'm pretty choked.

What do you think I should do?

[tubby.twins]

That's disappointing. You should send an email to Villex and ask him if the pickup can be fixed or replaced. His email address is tovillex@aol.com.

[speyer]

Looks like Mr. Villex is going to repair/replace the pup at no charge. It should be on his workbench today... let's wait and see

I did however, ask him about the red/white 'mid circuit' leads being disconnected. He assured me that if they are well isolated, there will be no issues. I currently have the bridge pickup installed that way and... it sounds fantastic! I would normally never consider soloing the bridge pup, but I have to admit these pickups sound great so far. Very clear, 'flat' and organic response with really good definition and punch. JUST what I was looking for to replace my stock pickups which were super dark and bass hyped with an odd, honky sounding mid-high response.

Ill post up when I get the DOA pickup installed... maybe do a review with some clips. I think more people would enjoy these pickups if they had a chance to hear them.

[tubby.twins]

Originally Posted by speyer

Looks like Mr. Villex is going to repair/replace the pup at no charge. It should be on his workbench today... let's wait and see

. . .

Ill post up when I get the DOA pickup installed... maybe do a review with some clips. I think more people would enjoy these pickups if they had a chance to hear them.

That's great news! I'm glad the bridge pickup is working just fine by itself. I'm continually amazed at how well mine locks into the fundamentals, when most other pickups in the same position don't do nearly as well.

I totally agree - it's a shame that these pickup aren't as well known. Villex, SGD and other smaller-name pickups are some of the hidden gems that are waiting to be discovered by a larger audience.

[speyer]

Replacement pickup being shipped today.

[MarkA]

Curious to see how this turns out. I'm looking at a fretless bass with Villex pups (with which I have no experience), and wondering how they'd do for that. Good luck with the installation! Good to hear the Mr. Villex is taking care of you.

[speyer]

oooh ya... these pickups would be amazing on a fretless. Guaranteed. Ishould be getting the replacement in the next day or two.

[GYang]

Originally Posted by speyer

Replacement pickup being shipped today.

So, what is going on now
Your tone report would round up this thread nicely.

Actually I play Villex P for a while and although I was rather amazed in the very beginning, I started to realize that my tastes are slightly in different direction.
Mid cut is probably inductive coil based or similar kind of circuit that lower inductance of the pickup, rather than filter it (for better or worse). As mentioned by some, not too much use of it, although some players might find it attractive.

[speyer]

Well, I love these pickups! and they sound great with the Nordy Pre. I get a nice pure vintage J sound that has a great organic sounding top end... not your typical agressive single coil... smoother, cleaner and a little warmer.

Of all the active/passive setups I've owned, this pairing is the ONLY one that sounds almost identical in active or passive mode! If I need to tweak things, I just engage the Nordy pre and go from there. It's unique because the volume AND the tone are the same in active or passive mode, so I can go back and forth will little or no change in output! I think that has a lot to do will the villex pups being more 'lively' or 'active' sounding in passive mode... none of my basses over the years were able to do that.

All in all, I'm sold on these pickups (and the nordy pre) for a unique modern/vintage "J" sound in my unique semihollow J style bass. Villex pups probably are not for everyone, but I think more people ought to give'm a try! They are fantastic sounding pickups.