Villex pickups vs HH Bongo Neo pickups

[fullrangebass]

Tonight at my band's rehearsal, I tried a brand new Bongo HH 5str side by side with my Villex-loaded Voodoo Dingwall and it was like "where did the other bass go?". My bandmates did not realize that I was testing a different bass; they thought I turned the volume down and messed up the sound from the amp!!! When I told them, they were really suprised

Both basses were properly set up nad run flat in the passive input of the amp (iAmp 800 running flat all the way) and the input gain was not to be touched from the start till the end of the rehearsal. The battery of the Bongo was fresh and the eq section was set flat (no cut or boost). The output of the Villex pickups was hotter than the Bongo's HH and the overall tone was by far more balanced and "organic" (compared to the lower output and quite compressed sound of the Bongo neo pickups). That was a bit of a surprise to me cause my other Dingwalls use neodymium pickups (FD1's, FD3's, PJ and Prima Arists) but they do not sound at all compressed. Any desire to acquire a Bongo was diminished

[Smallequestrian]

Sounds like something was wrong with that particular Bongo. The Bongo electronics are some of the hottest out there. I would think that the issue of low output from the Bongo would be directly related to the other issues you experienced.

Now Bongos aren't the most organic sounding basses, but I would argue against them sounding unbalanced or compressed.

[fullrangebass]

I will give it another go with other Bongos too and I'll let you know the outcome

[A9X]

If levels aren't matched there will be a strong preference by the listener for the louder device.

[luknfur]

Originally Posted by fullrangebass

Tonight at my band's rehearsal, I tried a brand new ______________...

Give it some time.

Flat typically means no cut/boost more than frequency but comparing two pups at the same settings doesn't tell you (or me anyway) much if anything other than how they compare at that setting.

Agree with A9X. Just ask anybody that can still hear.


Should add. Just got a couple sets of Villex pups and have had Bongos for a year then some. They're both decent pups but I've only played the Villex enough to draw that conclusion and that's about it. Been a while since I played the Bongo but there's a review on it in FAQ Dimento's HB - maybe MM experiment. In recall seems I could understand a compressed tone description. I think of them as PMM's.

[fullrangebass]

Originally Posted by luknfur

Give it some time.

Agree with A9X. Just ask anybody that can still hear.

I had a friend of mine handing me the basses every minute (alternating between the two) while the rest of the band was grooving on "black Magic woman" (both basses are black so my bandmates thought it was the same bass). The setting was not loud (as to miss the actual tone of the instruments) and I have a lot of dynamics while I play (no compressor, effects, bells or whistles). My conclusions were supported by what the others told me they heard: they thought I was turning down the volume and messing up my sound (when I used the Bongo).

I prefer to listen to my basses (or any bass really) on a "flat" amp and babs setting to reveal the true colours of the bass (output is not the leading factor, as the iAmp can give a big vol boost if needed).

Still I will try more Bongos and I will bring some other Dingwalls along to have in hand

[4Mal]

I don't get the fixation with output level. Not just from the OP but in general here at TB. There seems to be this thought that higher output basses are somehow better. That they are in someway louder. Most of us have Volume controls on our amps - they are actually there for a reason, eh ? I guess if a rig is seriously underpowered, maybe output level of a bass has some relevance but in that case I don't expect it's going to sound real good anyway. I can't see that being an issue with a Metro. (That's probably the only combo I could be comfortable with...)

At various time, with various basses in my stable I've run either a Radial Bassbone or an Alembic F2B to assist in gain balancing. I too hate changing volume levels at a gig. So I sound check 2 basses and make sure they are both dialed. If I can't do both - then I do the lower output bass and keep the vol down on the higher until I get a feel for the mix. I vastly prefer the 2 bass sound check though ...

Anyhow - celebrate the differences and make them work for ya is my advice. If you just don't like the way the Bongo sounds - put the bass down and slowly back away

[luknfur]

Originally Posted by fullrangebass

I had a friend of mine handing me the basses every minute (alternating between the two) while the rest of the band was grooving on "black Magic woman" (both basses are black so my bandmates thought it was the same bass). The setting was not loud (as to miss the actual tone of the instruments) and I have a lot of dynamics while I play (no compressor, effects, bells or whistles). My conclusions were supported by what the others told me they heard: they thought I was turning down the volume and messing up my sound (when I used the Bongo).

I prefer to listen to my basses (or any bass really) on a "flat" amp and babs setting to reveal the true colours of the bass (output is not the leading factor, as the iAmp can give a big vol boost if needed).

Still I will try more Bongos and I will bring some other Dingwalls along to have in hand

First thought that comes to mind there is that setting just happened to be more workable for the Ding but for the Bongo there was no cut so just air.

The way I compare pups is I ignore any preconcieved notions of eq and adjust each bass to the best tone I can muster for the tune and compare them in terms of the appeal of the tone - the quality of the tone. The tones may be nothing alike but what matters is how well it works with the tunes. I've got a list of like 15 criteria but basically the pup sucks to the degree you can't get a decent tone to tunes out of a bass from your best tweak effort. If they both put out tasty tone but are different that's a major plus, if tasty but similar that's a plus, if both tasty and the same - then you don't need both sets of those pups.

[fullrangebass]

I prefer to listen to EVERYTHING flat. This is a MAJOR disclosure as to what anything sounds like. If there is a "flat" setting, it reveals all nuances of what the product is projecting IMHO. I am sure I can create many workable sounds from most basses, but my herd grew to this extend on my quest for TONE. Tomorrow morning I will try more Bongos side by side with my Villex-loaded Voodoo and I will let you know of the verdict (my verdict at least)

[azzyrazzy]

Originally Posted by A9X

If levels aren't matched there will be a strong preference by the listener for the louder device.

+1

[azzyrazzy]

Originally Posted by fullrangebass

I prefer to listen to EVERYTHING flat. This is a MAJOR disclosure as to what anything sounds like. If there is a "flat" setting, it reveals all nuances of what the product is projecting IMHO. I am sure I can create many workable sounds from most basses, but my herd grew to this extend on my quest for TONE. Tomorrow morning I will try more Bongos side by side with my Villex-loaded Voodoo and I will let you know of the verdict (my verdict at least)

Output level...Let's say you had only one bass. You'd then turn the levels on the amp up to where you want them. There you go, and if you like the tone, great.
If you want to compare the tone of two basses, fine. Turn them up so they play at the same volume, or else the test will be of no real value, imo. (Unless you are testing the basses' outputs, which really is not very interesting, imo)

I am sure the Dingwall is great though

[fullrangebass]

I did match the volumes of the two basses today. Still it sounds quite compressed and not very distinct. I had no time to check more Bongos today (the distributor is renovating the down town branch so it was closed). I am keeping the reservation if it's just that one Bongo that has the output and tone problem (although the bass is brand new with all the plastic in place and it's in display for sale at the music store that owns the rehearsal studio). I'll keep you posted.

I know that Dingwalls are great basses

[12bass]

Are both instruments passive, or is one active? My experience with onboard electronics suggests that the active electronics in the Bongo might be obscuring the tone of the pickups somewhat.

[luknfur]

Originally Posted by fullrangebass

I did match the volumes of the two basses today. Still it sounds quite compressed and not very distinct. I had no time to check more Bongos today (the distributor is renovating the down town branch so it was closed). I am keeping the reservation if it's just that one Bongo that has the output and tone problem (although the bass is brand new with all the plastic in place and it's in display for sale at the music store that owns the rehearsal studio). I'll keep you posted.

I know that Dingwalls are great basses

FWIW:

I've been dinking with some Villex soaps I just got. Some interesting voodoo going on in them as the mags read like a Fender split P arrangement, two of the leads yield zip DCR paired with any other lead and the hot and bare lead yields 25K.

I emailed William about something else and got some information of sorts and I'm guessing the pups are set up in a split coil HB arrangement with half being along the lines of humcanceling (so basically like a pair of Model J's side by side wired to read staggered coils). From the wiring explanation he gave I'm guessing there's more to it but it really doesn't matter to me.

I usually wire pups straight to the jack and run off amp controls for the most part cause I want to hear the pup unaffected by what's between it and the amp. I did so with one of the Villex soaps as an initial test through a Roland bass cube and had to cut the gain completely to eliminate distortion (having a gain there's no active input on it).

The DCR on the Bongo pup is 2K. Seems they're hard wired parallel. God knows what goes on inside that thing.

Too busy dinking with other stuff to bother installing the Bongo in a like manner and doing a side by side and it's been too long since I've played the Bongo to recall anything beyond I liked the tone (guess I could go read my own review - maybe later). Maybe I will do the side by side at some point.

The above seems to jibe with an output variation but I don't recall the Bongo pup lacking in output at all. Seems it was at least average or better. The Villex though is through the roof.

There's always a possibility that something's miswired in the Bongo but the probability is remote if the controls function properly and the tone doesn't sound like something's screwed up. It can take me months to get a good feel for a bass and initial impressions don't count for much.

Edit: correction the villex was about 30K (didn't have my glasses on before). I since also paired up some of the other wires to see if I could get a parallel response and no go. In pairing up the red and white leads with the hot and ground also yielded yielded about 30K so those wires are in the circuit somehow.

Now I'm going to go do what I should have been doing.

[fullrangebass]

Just came back from a long hard day (bad day too) yet I tried the villex loaded Dingwall along with the Zebra one (both run in passive) against a Bongo Neo equipped 5str.

The output is better, but the tone is still compressed and less detailed and organic compared to either one the Dingwalls