vol/vol/tone vs. vol/blnd/tone

Joe Nerve · #1 08-19-2008, 10:15 PM

I'm sure this has been discussed but wasn't sure how to search for the answer to my question, which is:

if I rewire my thunderbird using all the stock parts to be volume/blend/tone - will I lose anything in the tones available or alter them in any way? is there any reason I might NOT want to do this? I'm so used to a single volume control that I have a real rough time getting same sound (or volume) twice with the 2 volume knobs.

I've got the March 87 Guitar Player magazine article which will be used as a guide.

Also - has anyone here done this?

bongomania · #2 08-19-2008, 10:42 PM

Technically speaking a passive blend pot is two pots combined, so V/B/T is actually "four pots" compared to the three of V/V/T. Each passive pot loads down the signal just a bit, especially with lower-quality pots.

However the difference when using high-quality pots is inaudible IMO, so it really just comes down to which format you're more accustomed to.

jordan_frerichs · #3 08-19-2008, 10:48 PM

blend is harder to figure the wiring for. i wanted mm+p with blend, vol, tone, but i could not figure it out. i prefer blend though. some amps are lound, even at one, so you have to adjust the vol on the instrument itself, and with vol/vol/tone, you have to fiddle around to get the right balance and sound, campared vol, blend, tone, where all you have to do is roll the vol up or down as you please, while keeping the sound you prefer, plus the same range as vol, vol.

Hoover · #4 08-20-2008, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jordan_frerichs

blend is harder to figure the wiring for.

Twenty-some odd years ago Dan Armstrong published an article in Guitar Player showing a very clear concise way to rewire standard Jazz Bass V/V/T to V/B/T using no additinal parts. I think I still have that diagram, I could scan it if you PM me.

Joe Nerve · #5 08-20-2008, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoover

Twenty-some odd years ago Dan Armstrong published an article in Guitar Player showing a very clear concise way to rewire standard Jazz Bass V/V/T to V/B/T using no additinal parts. I think I still have that diagram, I could scan it if you PM me.

Thanks, ya didn't read my entire post though.

Bongomania, I don't understand your 4 pot thing. I still count only 3 - volume-blend-tone. ??????

jordan - that's exactly the reason I really dislike 2 volumes. not sure how all the jazz bass people have been doing that for years.

i'm thinking I'm gonna cross my fingers and go for the change today. I'm going to let my local music dude do it though as he's a lot more experienced with a soldering iron than I am.

bongomania · #6 08-20-2008, 10:45 AM

As I said, a passive blend pot is really two pots in one. If you take a passive blend pot apart, you'll find it contains two separate resistive segments- one half of the blend pot is a volume control for the first pickup, the other half is a volume control for the second pickup. But of course it is in the housing of one pot with only one knob.

Joe Nerve · #7 08-20-2008, 10:49 AM

The article I have with the instructions says that you can use all the stock parts. It gives suggestions for upgrading the pots but claims the difference will be minimul, if not unoticable to most.

Ohh... and i'm not lookin to argue, just want to be clear before I make any moves.

4Mal · #8 08-20-2008, 10:54 AM

IME - VBT on a J style setup experiences more vol drop in the center position than they typical VVT. This is why I dig the Audere - not that it's what you were thinking but - my bass still has the passive / organic / not processed sound - however you like to describe it - but I get a buffered blend ...

Way more expensive than a high quality pot though ... me ? I'd stay with VVT or if it were possible in two holes VT/VT on stacked pots as the 62 RI J is. I've had that on a couple of basses and I like that setup a lot. Again - probably not a practical answer for a T'Bird.

Mushroo · #9 08-20-2008, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Nerve

The article I have with the instructions says that you can use all the stock parts. It gives suggestions for upgrading the pots but claims the difference will be minimul, if not unoticable to most.

Ohh... and i'm not lookin to argue, just want to be clear before I make any moves.

It's impossible to use a regular volume pot to blend between two pickups.

Joe Nerve · #10 08-20-2008, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Mal

IME - VBT on a J style setup experiences more vol drop in the center position than they typical VVT. This is why I dig the Audere - not that it's what you were thinking but - my bass still has the passive / organic / not processed sound - however you like to describe it - but I get a buffered blend ...

This is pretty much my main concern, but I wasn't for some reason sure how to put it into words. I notice when posts get too wordy here they often get ignored

. The way the bass is now I get a really nice blend of both pickups, and lots of variation. While the article on how to do this says that the bass will be loudest in the center position, I don't know if that's really the case, as it's NOT the case with all other blend controls I know.

I think I'm going to edit my OP to ask if anyone has actually done this, and what the noticable differences are.

Also, just noticed the post before this one which must have just gone up as I was posting. This guitar player article claims what you say to not be true.

Lowtonep12 · #11 08-20-2008, 11:03 AM

I recently re-wired my bass to vol-vol from blend.
I notice better tone now. It seems that each pickup tone is more dominate when I have either/or volume up.
Perhaps I have true separation now- not sure.
I can still blend if I want to as well.

Philbiker · #12 08-20-2008, 11:05 AM

Why Volume/Volume?

Joe Nerve · #13 08-20-2008, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philbiker

Why Volume/Volume?

I thought so. I'm totally on the fence now. 10 minutes ago I was sure I was doing it, now I'm sure I'm not. It just occurred to me, duh, that there's no center detent on the 2nd vol control anyhow (which I'd want), so I'd need to replace it regardless.

Hey!!??? How'd that happen Phil? You changed your post as I was repsonding to it, and I got the link instead.

Thanks.

Mushroo · #14 08-20-2008, 11:18 AM

One thing I learned from similar threads is that blend pots (which are actually two stacked volume pots) come in different "tapers" and choosing the correct one is very important. Depending on your preference, you can get a blend pot where the center detent is "both pickups at 100%," or one where center is "both pickups at 50%," or maybe even some other number like 75%.

If you are serious about this project, you need to do a little more research about what a blend pot is and exactly which kind you need. I think you have some misconceptions (no offense

). Check out Philbiker's link for more good info.

Joe Nerve · #15 08-20-2008, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mushroo

If you are serious about this project, you need to do a little more research about what a blend pot is and exactly which kind you need. I think you have some misconceptions (no offense

). Check out Philbiker's link for more good info.

No offense taken. I don't know anything about electronics. I play bass.

Mushroo · #16 08-20-2008, 11:26 AM

My opinion is that VVT and VBT are not necessarily exactly the same, but they are both pretty good. My evidence is that a lot of excellent builders use each method.

I have one of each, personally. My other basses are single-pickup!