Vol/Vol vs Vol/Blend?

Emprov · #1 05-06-2011, 08:28 PM

I'm in the market for an on-board pre and I really dig the vol/vol config. I've heard though that vol/vol may cause some tone cancellation. Does anyone know about this? I feel kinda dumb for asking this but, is one config technically superior to the other?

walterw · #2 05-06-2011, 08:31 PM

lots, lots, and lots of threads about this. a search is in order.

darkstorm · #3 05-06-2011, 09:02 PM

Only diff Ive ever noticed between the two is you get at least a sense of being able to tweak the pup blend a little more with vol vol. I dont think theres theres a tone diff as such between vol vol and vol blend.

prd004 · #4 05-06-2011, 09:06 PM

I just had my Lull Jazz modified from vol/vol to vol blend.
It's MUCH easier to adjust volume on the fly, I hated trying to do that with vol vol.

**line6man** · #5 05-06-2011, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emprov

I've heard though that vol/vol may cause some tone cancellation.

First off, as Walter stated, there are a ridiculous number of topics on VVT vs. VBT already.

Anyways, keep in mind that a blend pot IS two volumes, so any problems you would have with a two volume setup, you would also have with a blend pot.

The cancellation of a waveform occurs due to differences in phase between two signals that are being combined. You may be referring, instead, to insertion loss.

In a setup with two volumes, rolling either volume down slightly can cause an increase in the total volume, as a series resistance is introduced between the two signals when either volume pot is rolled down, which keeps the pickups from loading each other down and dropping the output impedance.

This also happens with blend pots, however. The center detent position can be quieter than any other setting, because the pickups are in parallel at that setting.

Another thing worth noting, if you are worried about any sort of tone loss, is that, depending on the pot values you choose, a VBT setup will place a more direct resistive load against the signal than a VVT setup, because a VBT setup consists of three volume pots running in parallel instead of two. This means that a VVT setup may give you a slightly hotter/brighter output. (Again, depending on your choice of pot values.)

Emprov · #6 05-06-2011, 09:43 PM

D'oh! Sorry, forgot about that whole "search" thing. Interestingly, upon a search, I found that the #1 thing said when this topic was being discussed was "There are a ton of threads discussing this, try searching!".

Seems like it comes down to personal preference.

**line6man** · #7 05-06-2011, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emprov

Seems like it comes down to personal preference.

Bingo.

NecroticImbecil · #8 05-06-2011, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emprov
Seems like it comes down to personal preference.

You have found the answer to most of the threads on Talkbass.

rojo412 · #9 05-06-2011, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NecroticImbecil

You have found the answer to most of the threads on Talkbass.

SHHHHH!!!! If people realize that... they'll shut TB down!

I've noticed a lot of basses I've played with a pan pot kind of... don't work. I'd roll to the bridge and it was like POW! Just bridge immediately. And vice versa.

Doesn't happen with the East preamp I have, but that's got a buffered input (or something like that).

VVT seems to do less of that, aka, when you roll off the neck volume a little, you still hear it, as opposed to shutting it off.
But if you need to turn down at the twist of one knob, you're SOL.

bassbenj · #10 05-07-2011, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rojo412

SHHHHH!!!! If people realize that... they'll shut TB down!

I've noticed a lot of basses I've played with a pan pot kind of... don't work. I'd roll to the bridge and it was like POW! Just bridge immediately. And vice versa.

Doesn't happen with the East preamp I have, but that's got a buffered input (or something like that).

VVT seems to do less of that, aka, when you roll off the neck volume a little, you still hear it, as opposed to shutting it off.
But if you need to turn down at the twist of one knob, you're SOL.

This is exactly correct. And it's even more true if you bass has series/parallel switching. The problem is that usually a blend pot in a passive setup is wired just like the two volumes. And these volumes are wired to short out the pickups rather than proportion the output signal as is common. This is why they tend to not work so evenly. To get a blend pot to work right you need to wire it like a real volume control and then have some kind of high impedance mixer/buffer (Like the East preamp).

But I hate the fact that with two volumes you need to try to adjust two knobs to change volume while keeping pickups balanced to keep single coil hum down. So I wire with blend. But fact is it tends to act more like a pickup switch than a volume blender. So I just live with it. Hey, my G&L just has a pickup switch and I like that just fine.

rojo412 · #11 05-07-2011, 07:16 AM

When I do the VV setup and have the s/p switch on the push/pull, I pull the switch and turn down the volume to kill both pickups. It's easier than a double roll-off.

Nightlyraider · #12 05-07-2011, 07:25 AM

I didn't do the mod myself, but my jazz was changed from Volume/Blend to Volume//volume/volume with a stacked knob for the old blend one.

It was different at first, but having the master volume and individual pickup controls is quite nice.

drnknmstr · #13 05-07-2011, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassbenj

This is exactly correct. And it's even more true if you bass has series/parallel switching. The problem is that usually a blend pot in a passive setup is wired just like the two volumes. And these volumes are wired to short out the pickups rather than proportion the output signal as is common. This is why they tend to not work so evenly. To get a blend pot to work right you need to wire it like a real volume control and then have some kind of high impedance mixer/buffer (Like the East preamp).

But I hate the fact that with two volumes you need to try to adjust two knobs to change volume while keeping pickups balanced to keep single coil hum down. So I wire with blend. But fact is it tends to act more like a pickup switch than a volume blender. So I just live with it. Hey, my G&L just has a pickup switch and I like that just fine.

Totally hear you about the annoyance of having to adjust 2 volumes. I rarely need to adjust volume, and if I do, I can do with my pedal board setup or amp, but I do often change and mix pickup settings.

The thing that I use the most on my passive Nordy is a master kill switch. I hate having to turn off the signal with 2 volume knobs. I don't know why more basses don't have that, but I can't live out it, especially if it's a 2 volume knob bass.

My Lakland hollowbody is always set with just the bridge pickup. I mute the neck pickup and use the pickup selector as a mute switch, too, by switching to the off neck pickup to mute the sound.

allexcosta · #14 05-07-2011, 07:37 AM

To me it seems that VOL/BLEND will only allow any combination that will lead to 100%, like 50% neck, 50% bridge or 25% neck, 75% bridge.

VOL/VOL will allow 100% bridge and 25 or 50% neck, if that makes any sense...

iplaysixstrings · #15 05-07-2011, 07:43 AM

it's only my opinion but vvt is the only way to go, if you need to control the whole volume quickly, get a volume pedal

drnknmstr · #16 05-07-2011, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allexcosta

To me it seems that VOL/BLEND will only allow any combination that will lead to 100%, like 50% neck, 50% bridge or 25% neck, 75% bridge.

VOL/VOL will allow 100% bridge and 25 or 50% neck, if that makes any sense...

In my experience, it hasn't worked like that. Really, the V/B setup tends to act like a switch rather than a blend. I mean, the V/V isn't amazing either, but I find more variations.

If you have a buffered blend or volumes, like on an Audere, THEN you'll REALLY notice it. I liked that a lot, but in terms of how the preamp effected my tone, I personally didn't find it worthwhile.

kaiuk · #17 05-07-2011, 11:55 AM

question y'all": can i do a V/V/V/T?
so two individual pickup volumes and an overall volume?

impactwrench · #18 05-07-2011, 12:50 PM

All of my basses are VVT which I have no desire to change. I can easily roll down both knobs at the same time if I have to. I would think if you like VBT, why not just BT? Why do you need a volume knob if you can just use blend and tone. I would use a tuner pedal to mute as needed, or the mute on the amp head.

Jazz Ad · #19 05-07-2011, 01:04 PM

The blend is always adjusting 100 % of one pickup against x % of the other one. All the positions you may have on a vv can also be done on a vb.

Quote:

Originally Posted by allexcosta

To me it seems that VOL/BLEND will only allow any combination that will lead to 100%, like 50% neck, 50% bridge or 25% neck, 75% bridge.

VOL/VOL will allow 100% bridge and 25 or 50% neck, if that makes any sense...

SGD Lutherie · #20 05-07-2011, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rojo412

I've noticed a lot of basses I've played with a pan pot kind of... don't work. I'd roll to the bridge and it was like POW! Just bridge immediately. And vice versa.

Yeah, but this is true of two volumes also. If you turn down the neck a little, you hear only bridge. It's a very small range of useful mixing unless you turn both volume pots down a little.

The important thing with blends is finding one with a good taper. Some of them don't work very well. I found that the Bourns blend pots are very good.

The other trick is to use a 500K blend pot, as you have more range.

And you have to wire them up correctly. On each deck one end is ground, and wont work if you swap them. You have to check the resistance between the two end lugs and the wiper when it's in the center. The side with the highest resistance goes to ground. On a good blend pot the other side will read almost zero.