volume problem/question...P vs. J

[triplesix]

I'm having an extreme volume change when I go between my basses....

Here's the scoop.....svt-4 pro and and svt 810 cabinet...fender jp-90 with both pickups sounds great...growly when I want it and clean when I need that and my volume master is set to about '3'....when I play my MIM Fender Jazz bass the volume and punch drops dramatically and I need to crank the amp up to 7 or 8 and get alot of limiting lights popping on and still can't hear myself cutting through.

It seems strange to me that I have such a severe change in volume. Anybody got any ideas...I mean I wouldn't mind other pickups or even putting in a precision pup in my jazz but if there is a simpler solution I'd appreciate any advice. I am using the jp-90 exclusively at this point.

Should I a)change pickups b)check other electronics like pots, etc. c) throw a precision pup in the MIM after some routing. I have some emg's but hate the whole 'battery game'.

Thanks!!

[luknfur]

Originally Posted by triplesix

I'm having an extreme volume change when I go between my basses....

Here's the scoop.....svt-4 pro and and svt 810 cabinet...fender jp-90 with both pickups sounds great...growly when I want it and clean when I need that and my volume master is set to about '3'....when I play my MIM Fender Jazz bass the volume and punch drops dramatically and I need to crank the amp up to 7 or 8 and get alot of limiting lights popping on and still can't hear myself cutting through.

It seems strange to me that I have such a severe change in volume. Anybody got any ideas...I mean I wouldn't mind other pickups or even putting in a precision pup in my jazz but if there is a simpler solution I'd appreciate any advice. I am using the jp-90 exclusively at this point.

Should I a)change pickups b)check other electronics like pots, etc. c) throw a precision pup in the MIM after some routing. I have some emg's but hate the whole 'battery game'.

Thanks!!

FWIW:

Don't know those basses as to pup output and I'm guessing both are passive, but I'd look into the following:

1) are your volume adjustments comparable on the bass itself

2) pickup height

3) Eq'ing (is the volume variation the same whether solo or played to music?)

4) Do you know for sure the bass is functioning properly (at least that both pups work)

Possible it's the way the basses should be but pretty dramatic and something seems amiss.

you might forget tone and just crank volume and trebles on the Jazz just see what you can get in terms of output.

[Rodent]

for a volume difference this extreme, it sounds like one is active and the other passive

all the best,

R

[bassguitar]

The amp has 2 inputs - is one passive and the other active?

[triplesix]

Neither basses have active circuitry....the amp setup is the same for both basses and I usually play with the pickups blended somewhat but even when the Jazz is cranked there is still the huge jump for the amp to deal with...from 3 on the vol. to 7 on the vol. Same EQ'ing in the studio with a 'live' band behind me. It's definitely "in" the bass.

I've read some about the Jazz pups needing replacement from stock. How about testing the inherent volume of each pup...can I do that with a voltmeter? I'm thinking of taking the precision pup from a squier I have and putting it in with 1 of the j pups and replacing the vol/tone pots/wiring...this is the cheap method...(I'll router myself), but am worried the squier pup will just be crap also.

or just replacing all the electronics and new J pups....or maybe a precision pup??

[triplesix]

p.s. both basses are going into the same input...the one without the dB reduction for active and are blended at about 8 or 9 volume on both neck and bridge pups. All of the pickups work individually with the same volume issue whether blended or used alone. All the pickups are passive. This is also straight in with no pedals, etc. weird huh?

[luknfur]

Originally Posted by triplesix

p.s. both basses are going into the same input...the one without the dB reduction for active and are blended at about 8 or 9 volume on both neck and bridge pups. All of the pickups work individually with the same volume issue whether blended or used alone. All the pickups are passive. This is also straight in with no pedals, etc. weird huh?

So what about solo? Do the basses seem to have the same volume spread solo as when you have everything set when played to the band.

If the output on the Jazz sounds a lot louder solo than to music I'd suspect Eq'ing. You can crank a bass yet not even hear it if it's getting lost in the mix.

[triplesix]

To be honest I don't know.

Would the basses themselves...tonewise...affect the volume THAT much when mixed with the band. What I mean to say is...are the inherent EQ differences in the basses themselves enough to affect volume THAT dramatically.

Would new pups change this dynamic??
...messing with the EQ on my amp does not help me cut through.

EVERYTHING is the same except for which bass is used and the volume on the amp...volume knobs, pup height, etc.....

Is there a way to read the output of a pup...w/ a voltmeter??

[triplesix]

Actually..I think I know....the JP rocks at 3 on the volume even when noone else is playing....and the jazz is 'just ok' volume-wise at '7' on the amp...when playing alone....

The jazz at '7' definitely rocks the peak and limit lights on the amp while the jp at '3' just rubs the peak light the way you'd want it to.....

[luknfur]

Originally Posted by triplesix

Actually..I think I know....the JP rocks at 3 on the volume even when noone else is playing....and the jazz is 'just ok' volume-wise at '7' on the amp...when playing alone....

The jazz at '7' definitely rocks the peak and limit lights on the amp while the jp at '3' just rubs the peak light the way you'd want it to.....

Well it's consistent solo and accompanied then.

Have you tried a neutral boost - like dropping the volume on the Jazz to be more in accord with amp limits and adding something like a GEB-7 (set flat and boosted to whatever) to the chain?

Something that struck me odd off the bat is using the same eq'ing for both basses. So I assume you're getting your tone variation from the bass. What are the bass control settings your using? The J's combined will be 16K which should be more than the P no matter how hot.

You have to disconnect pup leads to check DCR. There's about as much possibility that the bass is as it should be as that there could be something amiss. Fender has almost all of their diagrams listed on their site so you might see if theirs matches your bass. Maybe read through Dimento's Trouble-Shooting Guide in FAQ and see if anything registers there.

[triplesix]

I have a few pedals that really add quite a bit of volume...but as far as the MIMjazz goes they really don't help me cut through....

The JP-90 is THE bass for this rig for me....as of last practice,LOL...but seriously I would replace my jazz pups with the same pickups that are in this bass in a heartbeat!!!

I basically plug in and crank up the gain/volume until I get the growl and volume I need then adjust the amp settings from there. Not a lot of changes though, but I am really just learning to play with EQ. This is the first instrument I've had this experience with...as for the bass...I usually blend both pups on almost any bass at about 8 or 9...a bit more on the precision pup if I got it...or backed off a bit on the bridge pup in a jazz. I played my squier precision the other night and it was also much quiter than the JP-90, but I wouldn't necessarily say it was as quiet or quieter than the MIMjazz, at least solo.

I have an old squire jazz with EMGs that sounds great...but pretty clean, I have never played IT through the Ampeg though.

I'm gonna start by replacing the other electronics and then bump the pups if that doesn't help....maybe go for some EMGs or I'll scroll the comparisons and find something cmparable to the JP-90's setup I guess.

[luknfur]

Something that totally skipped my mind is that Jazz basses are typically wired in parallel which makes them brighter and clearer in tone but reduces output to about a fourth of series. I usually only run a single bridge pup with no onboard controls so it's not something I deal with. I'm not a big fan of parallel tone and if you like the P90 you're probably not either.

Somewhere Smash has got a thread on running J's in series. Search and check it out. You can probably just wire your jazz in series to get what you want.

[triplesix]

Aha!!! That is what I'm going to do right now....see how the pups are wired. I knew eventually something would come up regarding the electronics....sounds like this may be the answer I'm looking for...thanks...I'll check it out!!

Do the pickup outputs remain the same when each is used individually? In other words does the bridge pup alone put out about a quarter output when wired in parralel?

[luknfur]

Originally Posted by triplesix

Aha!!! That is what I'm going to do right now....see how the pups are wired. I knew eventually something would come up regarding the electronics....sounds like this may be the answer I'm looking for...thanks...I'll check it out!!

Do the pickup outputs remain the same when each is used individually? In other words does the bridge pup alone put out about a quarter output when wired in parralel?

To my knowledge you have to have two coils interacting to get series parallel affect. J's have historically been singles and guys usually max both pups in order to get hum canceling which also requires 2 coils. Split P's are usually thought of as singles but there more accurately split humbuckers.

As an after thought the coils are still connected in circuit so it shouldn't make any difference. Turning the volume of a pup off is not like flipping a kill switch. When a volume is off the pup is in effect being shorted to ground. Common sense would tell you if both pups didn't remain connected when in parallel, cutting the volume off on one would actually increase output.

There's plenty of guys who know the why's on this board. I'm a how a guy, I don't really care why unless I need to know for some reason.

It may not be the issue but it fits the scenario. If you had a pair of J's at 8k each in series you should 16K, in parallel 4K.


Oh yeh, if you want to test it, just wire the hot lead from one pup to the ground of the other so you have the ground wire free on one pup and hot free on the other pup. Then wire each straight to the jack accordingly (skipping the harness altogether for test purposes). You'll in effect have a VERY split humbucker. As simple as it is, make a diagram where the wires went so you can put it back the way it was.

Also as an afterthought, in accord with the above, just one of the pups ran to the jack should be louder than the pair together in parallel. Also you could check the DCR with a meter while the leads are disconnected.
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