Wait... If I have an EQ pedal, is there any point in having an onboard preamp?

[jscomposer]

I have an Empress ParaEQ. Is there any point in outfitting my bass with an onboard 3-band preamp?

[SGD Lutherie]

Maybe not... depends on how you use your EQ.

If you want to change sounds you will have to bend over and adjust the pedal. Not exactly convenient to do while you are playing.

Pedals are more for set-and-forget, or for using it to switch to a different tone from what you have dialed in at the bass or amp.

[David1234]

Not much.

[line6man]

Onboard EQ is only one of the three things a preamp does.

The second thing is the lowered impedance output, which means less of a loading effect from the parasitic capacitance of your guitar cable.

The third thing is the gain boost provided by some preamps.

A 3 band preamp may be unnecessary, but I would look into a simple buffer circuit to lower the impedance.

[darkstorm]

Yes theres advantages to onboard preamp. Even at flat settings it improves the tone imo via switching it to LowZ. Also it allows for a boost to the signal which in most case in my experience, lets the bass better drive effects and/or amps preamp. 3rdly it lets you adjust the tone to your first and beggining of effects chain. I like haveing multiband eq after overdrive. The basses active eq on the imo better preamps have center freq's that are very useful to this start tone to your effects. With more extensive eq section somewhere later in the effects chain. A 2band eq is enough unless you have a 3band onboard eq with selectable mids for the mid control. No choice for mids preamps have proven useless to me for the most part. As the std default mid setting for these is undesireable to me most of the time. Howver a sweepable mid control could be quite useful at times for voice changes on the fly and mid course. Kinda a variation of shifting pup blending and active bass or treble settings while letting a note linger with long sustain.

A lot of active onboard eq's also have undesireable treble center freq to me. So ones with selectable treble freq are better choice. At least then if nothing else you can pick the least undesirebale one if you didnt base your preamp purchase on the requirement of meeting your center freq's of choice for a onboard preamp.

Some dont like the more modern sound that preamps tend to give prev passive basses. Some like to be able to switch back and forth between passive and active mode via switch on the bass.

If you tend to be somewhat a tone freak like me, an acive preamp is a requirement to gets one's tone just right. And ideally the bass sounds very very good to you without the preamp. The preamp then takes very good sound and improves that making it most excellent. Rather then taking a bleh sounding bass and trying to make it sound good to very good by adding a preamp.

[bongomania]

An EQ pedal can provide the same buffering as an onboard pre. So from a technical perspective the difference between an onboard preamp w/EQ, and an outboard EQ pedal, is in the length of the cable between the pickups and the EQ. With an onboard preamp, the cable is only a few inches long. With a pedal, the cable is typically 10' to 30'. It's up to the individual player/listener whether they can hear a difference between one and the other. To me, a high-quality 10' cable sounds just as good as the 6" or so of onboard wiring. A 30' cable, maybe not so much. It depends on the specific pickups in the bass-some have higher output than others, and higher output will mean less of an audible impact from cable capacitance.

So for me, I would tend not to care about onboard vs. pedal if I was using a relatively short cable from bass to pedal; but if I was using a long cable, I would tend to prefer having an onboard buffer.

[bassyRyan]

Originally Posted by bongomania

To me, a high-quality 10' cable sounds just as good as the 6" or so of onboard wiring.

Just using a Sansamp can prove this statement.

[SGD Lutherie]

Originally Posted by bassyRyan

Just using a Sansamp can prove this statement.

Sure, if you want your bass to sound like mush.

Another benefit of some preamps is that they buffer the pickups before the controls. Besides the cable between your bass and amp (plus any unbuffered "true bypass" pedals, which can suck your tone if you have to many in series), the passive volume and tone controls color the sound of your pickups.

[bongomania]

True, but to a roughly equal extent, the circuitry of a preamp can often color the pickups just as much. Of course there are super-hi-fi preamps, but they are not the "average" commonly in stock basses.

[line6man]

Originally Posted by SGD Lutherie

Another benefit of some preamps is that they buffer the pickups before the controls.

That's only true in some cases though. Not every preamp has buffered pickup inputs. Many have only a single input and output.

If you have a VVT or VBT setup with an active/passive switch, the pickups are loaded down by the controls first.
Even with just a blend pot and a master volume after the preamp's output, the pickups still see the load of the blend pot.

Btw, what happened to your avatar, David?

[SGD Lutherie]

Originally Posted by line6man

Btw, what happened to your avatar, David?

Hmmmmm. I just noticed that!

Let me investigate.

[line6man]

Originally Posted by SGD Lutherie

Hmmmmm. I just noticed that!

Let me investigate.

Did your supporting membership expire?

[SGD Lutherie]

Originally Posted by line6man

Did your supporting membership expire?

Apparently so! I need to fix that soon.

[jpTron]

Originally Posted by bongomania

An EQ pedal can provide the same buffering as an onboard pre. So from a technical perspective the difference between an onboard preamp w/EQ, and an outboard EQ pedal, is in the length of the cable between the pickups and the EQ. With an onboard preamp, the cable is only a few inches long. With a pedal, the cable is typically 10' to 30'. It's up to the individual player/listener whether they can hear a difference between one and the other. To me, a high-quality 10' cable sounds just as good as the 6" or so of onboard wiring. A 30' cable, maybe not so much. It depends on the specific pickups in the bass-some have higher output than others, and higher output will mean less of an audible impact from cable capacitance.

So for me, I would tend not to care about onboard vs. pedal if I was using a relatively short cable from bass to pedal; but if I was using a long cable, I would tend to prefer having an onboard buffer.

Would an onboard buffer make the volume louder? Cause i have a passive Jazz that has low output volume, at least compared to my active Warwick. Any you recommend?

[line6man]

Originally Posted by jpTron

Would an onboard buffer make the volume louder? Cause i have a passive Jazz that has low output volume, at least compared to my active Warwick. Any you recommend?

You can add a gain boost circuit if you want to increase the output.

Actually, a gain boost circuit would buffer the output anyways, so you could do that instead of a buffer.

[maturanesa]

Originally Posted by jscomposer

I have an Empress ParaEQ. Is there any point in outfitting my bass with an onboard 3-band preamp?

yep. you can turn on or turn off a pickup and adjust the tone very easy.

[LaBassGuy]

In order to make my bass active without installing an onboard pre (as I have plenty of EQ options on my outboard pres), I plan on installing a Bart TC 3 boost only preamp. And it costs only $24.

Originally Posted by line6man

You can add a gain boost circuit if you want to increase the output.

Actually, a gain boost circuit would buffer the output anyways, so you could do that instead of a buffer.

[BigOldHarry]

I've never cared for EQ pedals... To my mind, they just add noise to your signal.

[line6man]

Originally Posted by LaBassGuy

In order to make my bass active without installing an onboard pre (as I have plenty of EQ options on my outboard pres), I plan on installing a Bart TC 3 boost only preamp. And it costs only $24.

That statement contradicts itself.

[LaBassGuy]

Let me rephrase that, instead of installing an all out EQ-based onboard preamp . . . . as it would be redudant given my outboard pre options.

I actually considered the The Redeemer buffer circuit but just went with the Bart

Originally Posted by line6man

That statement contradicts itself.