Washburn AB90i Piezo Problem

[RJMiller]

Have a new to me Washburn thinline hollowbody special edition. In addition to two passive humbucker pickups, it has a piezo bridge that needs a 9 volt battery to operate.

Sounds great with just the humbuckers, but the piezo with the humbuckers or alone sounds terrible - only shrill highs and fret noise with no mids or lows - totally unuseable to my ears.
Would like to have a piezo that sounds good just to have some additonal variety of tones available.

The humbuckers have tone and volume controls, the piezo only has a volume control.

When the piezo is combined with the humbuckers and the piezo volume is zero (or the a battery is not installed), the tone loses the highs and some volume. Also, when the piezo select switch is 1st changed to add the piezo, there is a loud pop. After that, there is no pop when switching the piezo in and out.

Any one else have an AB90i special edition - the headstock says 48 were made? How does the piezo on your AB90i sound?

I have done a search and read some threads on piezo pickups and others report they can sound pretty bad if they don't have the correct buffer (whatever that is) or aren't wired correctly with the other pickups.

Also, in a thread, I believe it was Rick Turner who said don't combine a piezo with passive pickups.

So, any thing anyone can suggest that I can change so the piezo is useable? (Assuming my bass electronics are OK and it is just that the Washburn piezo electronics sound that bad.)

I believe the Washburn is considered a "low end bass" but I really like the way the bass plays and feels and looks so I am willing to put some more money into it whether it is considered "low end" or not.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

RJM

[luknfur]

Not into piezo’s and have limited experience with them but can get you a bump if nothing else.

Shrill highs doesn’t sound like any piezo I‘ve heard. Most piezo’s are typically trebly but hollow, percussive, woody in nature and on the soft side not hard - similar to the top end on an URB.

Don’t know the bass but looking at the electronics would tell you something in terms of how connected the mag/piezo’s are. Obviously they’re probably more connected than they should be cause you’re getting some undesirable interaction between the two. I think Rick was saying they shouldn’t be on the same channel not so much not used in the same bass - although I don’t think he mixes them in his basses. I have a two channel pre made by Bob Wolstiene (Highlander basses/old associate of Ricks) where one channel is piezo one mag.

There have been some good posts in the last 6 months on piezos mentioning some units, apparently EMG makes one among others. The buffer deal in the impedance mismatch between mags/piezos.

I wouldn’t pay any attention to the “48” special edition stuff as that can be anything that’s added that’s not stock - typically appearance stuff and rarely anything to do that effects tone.

Popping can usually be resolved by adding a cap to the switch but it may be unnecessary once you’ve made some mods.

Don’t know the bass so don’t know how accessible controls are in the bass but looking at them should tell you something - assuming you know what you’re looking at. If they aren’t readily accessible as many hollowbody’s aren’t, that in itself could be a challenge.

Probably a good idea to skim through FAQ the Bass Mod link in the first paragraph of Dimento’s Trouble Shooting Guide.

[RJMiller]

luknfur,

Thanks for taking the time to reply - helped a great deal.

Guess I'll have to find a tech to take it to since I am "electronically challenged".

It'll be hard to work on - no control cavity. Have looked all over and can't find hinges and a latch to get to the insides. Wonder if the electronics are installed and then the back glued on?

Take care.

RJM

[Pbassred]

As far as I know Piezos only really do high frequencies so the tone control is a waste. The way to use it is to feed in just a little to "sweeten" the overall tone. The fret noise is because you are listening to the actual body vibrations rather than the magnetic effect of the string alone.

I tried putting a piezo under the bridge of my Yamaha but I had the same problem. When yamaha do it they put the pickup on each bridge saddle so you get more string, less wood.

[smperry]

Originally Posted by Pbassred

As far as I know Piezos only really do high frequencies so the tone control is a waste. The way to use it is to feed in just a little to "sweeten" the overall tone.

That is not my experience with piezos at all, having owned two Turners (solidbodies with a piezo & active mag setup) , a Washburn acoustic (hollowbody), and played others (Rob Allen, Turner, Veillette, etc.). Sometimes piezos can add too much low bass for me, and I end up cutting a bit.

On my Washburn, I'm thinking about replacing the preamp with a simpler Highlander one that I already have, although it sounds good as is.

Not knowing your bass at all, my best guess would be the preamp/buffering of the piezo needs to be changed. You might be able to keep your existing electronics but add an additional buffer just for the piezo. I'd send Rick Turner an email; he might be able to suggest specific options.

Marshall

[RJMiller]

Thanks!

Will send an email to Rick Turner.

RJM

[luknfur]

Depends on the setup I think. For the typical piezo I've heard (per my description) a tone control would probably be fairly useless unless you wanted to play with caps and make some adjustments. Actually would be some interesting exploration there I think, especially throwing a reverse twist into it with something like the Howard Roberts bass bleed.

Quality piezo setups like Rics are a different animal I suspect (since I've never had one). I thinks Ric gets a 20Hz - 20kHz response out of his (thus no real need for a mag) and I get the impression that's mostly in the electronics cause he said on his site the actual piezo he uses is a just a strip of something that is really cheap cost wise. Some interesting reading there by the way.

[RJMiller]

Will have to look around the Turner site to see what I can learn.

Sent Rick an e-mail and got an auto-response eply that he is on vacation in Tasmania for a few weeks. Hope he has time to reply when he returns.

Wonder how the Washburn would sound retro-fitted with his electronics - if that is possible? But, with the humbuckers, perhaps redundant.

Listened to the piezo again and, perhaps my description was too extrme - they certainly add an edge and would probably cut through the mix. Not my kind of tone though, but some might be happy with it.

Retro-fit might cost as much as the bass?

RJM

[smperry]

Originally Posted by luknfur

Depends on the setup I think. For the typical piezo I've heard (per my description) a tone control would probably be fairly useless unless you wanted to play with caps and make some adjustments. Actually would be some interesting exploration there I think, especially throwing a reverse twist into it with something like the Howard Roberts bass bleed.

Quality piezo setups like Rics are a different animal I suspect (since I've never had one). I thinks Ric gets a 20Hz - 20kHz response out of his (thus no real need for a mag) and I get the impression that's mostly in the electronics cause he said on his site the actual piezo he uses is a just a strip of something that is really cheap cost wise. Some interesting reading there by the way.

It's nice to have the mags on the Electroline because it fills in the middle. Still don't get why a tone control would be useless on a "typical" setup, having played many piezo equipped basses (other than the Rick Turners I own) with tone controls but that's fine...don't have the technical knowledge that you do.

M

[luknfur]

Originally Posted by smperry

It's nice to have the mags on the Electroline because it fills in the middle. Still don't get why a tone control would be useless on a "typical" setup, having played many piezo equipped basses (other than the Rick Turners I own) with tone controls but that's fine...don't have the technical knowledge that you do.

M

Actually I'm a trial and error not a technical guy and as stated I have very limited experience with piezos: have a Lightwave with one and messed with the radio shack deal for kicks and grins and that's it. Bought the Wolstien pre mostly bassed on what I've gathered in passive reading so if I ever wanted to check a peizo out I'd have a pre that would work. I hooked it up to a mag to verify it work fine but not a piezo.

I responded to this thread as I do most cause it had no response (typically at the bottom of page and headed for page 2 - the dungeon in other words) and primarily to give it a bump for additional feedback before it went into the abyss. I've added feedback as it struck me as worthy of comment as nobody else had added it.

In terms of "typical" the Lightwave and the radio shack piezos are treble only in response so it flows putting a tone control on something like that is not going produce any bass response cause there's none in it to begin with. The vast majority of what I've read of piezo tone on TB reflects that treble only response from them. I know from Rick alone they're capable of more, just never experienced it.

My guess is if I had your experience I would be expressing more along the lines of what you're saying. I don't so I didn't. I stated the tone control would probably be useless (on the treble only piezo response tone) becuase I haven't done it so I don't know for a fact but I can't see how you could get bass response where there is none unless (as I mentioned) there's something in electronics that would bring it out where it doesn't show otherwise.

I wasn't discounting what you or anybody else says, merely reflecting my experience which is all I know. Historically I've began my responses with FWIW. Take what you want and leave the rest or take none at all - it's free for what it's worth to whoever.

[mr sprocket]

RJM I do not have the AB90i but I am looking at getting a AB95 shortly. There are also a few other AB90i owners here at TB. I originally was going to modify my AB20 acoustic bas by adding a mag pickup. But I like the idea of upgrading the AB95 more. In the process I contacted John from John East. He makes a preamp mixer for use with a piezo and mag pickup. That is what I am thinking about. I will probably replace the mag pups as well.

Some Washburns are low end but some are pretty good quality.

[RJMiller]

mr sprocket,

Thanks for the reply and another alternative to look into.

Have a John East/Skjold preamp on my Skjold six string and like it very much. Solid and resonant tone.

Don't know what mag pickups the AB95 has, but, if they are the same as Washburn put on the AB90i, you might be surprised how much you like them.

RJM

[smperry]

Originally Posted by luknfur

I wasn't discounting what you or anybody else says, merely reflecting my experience which is all I know. Historically I've began my responses with FWIW. Take what you want and leave the rest or take none at all - it's free for what it's worth to whoever.

No worries. I wasn't bothered and hope you weren't either. I am more familiar with the Rob Allen/Rick Turner type stuff which IME have woofy lows (maybe lacking in mids, but not lows). I didn't remember the piezo on a former lightwave bass being only treble, but wouldn't actually know, because I couldn't solo the piezos (and its been a few years). On my Washburn hollowbody, I do add bass to the piezo (via onboard active eq), but wouldn't say it's just treble.

Clearly the OP isn't getting any lows so none of this is useful...but here's another bump.

M

[luknfur]

Originally Posted by smperry

No worries. I wasn't bothered and hope you weren't either...but here's another bump.

M

Nope not a bit. Throws a different experience into the mix which is a plus for all of us.