What % of tone is affected by PUP selection?

[ericmknight1906]

I recently purchased a 2009 Fender Jazz 5 MIM. Its a really nice bass and solidly built. However, I can't seem to get a good full tone out of it. I understand that Passive pups don't have a lot of variety. But I figured that a good amp can compensate for it.
I have an SWR workingMan pro amp 12". For some reason, my Fender always sounds empty, no matter what kind of adjustments I make.

I realize that technique may play a role in tone. Atleast thats what I've been told. How true that Is...I wouldn't know. My technique is okay I guess. I fret correctly and am pretty fluid so i've pretty much ruled that out as being a problem.

My fender came with "standard jazz pickups" with the exposed poles. are these the same as the american pups? Or are they just cheap imitations? Do the kind of pups you use play a major role in tone? I've seen pups ranging from $50 to $300. What are you actually paying for and why the huge difference in price?

The sound that i'm looking for is a nice full growly passive sound. Oh and I'm using DR highbeams.

[line6man]

A HUGE percentage of tone comes from the pickups.

The pickups are the very first component in your signal path.
If they sound like crap, everything else down the line is going to sound like crap.

[Nashrakh]

Originally Posted by line6man

The pickups are the very first component in your signal path.

I think fingers/pick and strings are even before the pups...

But I concur. Pups can make or break a sound, especially the placement of the PU.

[line6man]

Originally Posted by Nashrakh

I think fingers/pick and strings are even before the pups...

Note that I said "first component in your signal path".
Fingers/strings are not a part of the electronics chain running from bass to speakers.

[rocknrollbandit]

74.34%

[Matt in TN]

Originally Posted by rocknrollbandit

74.34%

You're way off. It's 14.237%. Everybody knows that

[groooooove]

the pickups themselves are a huge part of it. IMO the biggest part of it, is the pickup placement. if the two jazz bass pickups arent in the "sweet spots" then you wont be able to get that full sound you love..

but a great amp can still make it sound fatter.

[Nashrakh]

Originally Posted by line6man

Note that I said "first component in your signal path".
Fingers/strings are not a part of the electronics chain running from bass to speakers.

Well, they may not be part of the electronics chain, but IMO they are part of the signal chain because they PRODUCE the signal.

Also, if those two sound like sh*t, nothing else can make it sound pretty... (but that's not the point here)

But I guess you're right about the whole thing.

[dkhp124]

Pickups play a pretty big role in the tone.

I replaced my stock Fender Jazz passive pickups on my Geddy precisely because it didn't sound full enough for me. I replaced them with DiMarzio Model J's. Might want to check them out... Good luck!

[FunkMetalBass]

There's no algorithm to solve this. There is no answer. Please re-phrase your question to consider this fact.

I'd say around 50% of your tone in a passive instrument comes from pickups alone.

[NKUSigEp]

Originally Posted by ericmknight1906

What % of tone is affected by PUP selection?

100% - there's no aspect of your tone that isn't affected by your pickup selection. Now if you're considering it like a pie chart where your overall tone is created by certain parts of your instrument, that's completely subjective to what instrument your playing and it's different components.

Pickup placement is just as important as the type of pickup used as well. When it comes to cheap MIM pickups vs. nice aftermarket pickups (such as Nordstrand, Duncans, EMG's, etc), there's really no comparison. The MIM's were made to do one thing - be cost effective. The other pickups were made to positively enhance the sound inherent to your bass, according to your own personal tastes.

[Surly]

Look at the Seymour Duncan tone chart. Pickups are a fine tuning.

[M0ses]

Originally Posted by ericmknight1906

I understand that Passive pups don't have a lot of variety.

You have been grievously misinformed.

[line6man]

Originally Posted by M0ses

You have been grievously misinformed.

+1

[4StringTheorist]

Originally Posted by M0ses

You have been grievously misinformed.

+1 There is so much variety in passive pickups!

Originally Posted by ericmknight1906

I realize that technique may play a role in tone. Atleast thats what I've been told. How true that Is...I wouldn't know.

Anchor your thumb on the bridge pickup and pluck the strings very close to the bridge.

Now move your plucking hand up and pluck right over the 12th fret area. Yes.. pluck the string way up on the neck itself.

Notice the MAJOR difference in the tone produced. Now you know through personal experience: Your technique can have an impact on your tone.

Originally Posted by ericmknight1906

My technique is okay I guess. I fret correctly and am pretty fluid so i've pretty much ruled that out as being a problem.

Main thing I'd check given your complaint about your tone.. are you plucking really really hard? That can thin out your tone substantially. The string hits an amplitude limit, buzzing off of some frets.. giving you a nice treble buzz, but really choking off the low end.

Originally Posted by ericmknight1906

My fender came with "standard jazz pickups" with the exposed poles. are these the same as the american pups? Or are they just cheap imitations? Do the kind of pups you use play a major role in tone? I've seen pups ranging from $50 to $300. What are you actually paying for and why the huge difference in price?

The sound that i'm looking for is a nice full growly passive sound. Oh and I'm using DR highbeams.

One of the places that a lot of corners get cut on an instrument like yours is the electronics package. If you love the playability of the instrument, and it has a good sound acoustically, then an upgrade of the electronics could really help you out.

[mongo2]

Whatever the instrument's inherent acoustic tone is, the pickups will effect it.

[Bootzilla]

If you want fuller tone you should get some lows/low mids in there.

You could:
-Get a P bass
-Put on some dead roundwounds (or flats)
-turn down the tone knob
-play more towards the neck
-use the neck pickup solo
-move your pickups more towards the neck (there is no sweet spot, towards the neck is -more bass and towards the bridge is more treble so the sweet spot is pure subjective imo)
-add mids or lows on your amp (depending on your defenition of a "full" sound)
-replace your pickups and hope you get some that have the sound you want.

(all depending on what you think is a full sound)

On your original question: 17.41%

[Milky]

Not to be the lone dissenter but I think in this case it may be the amp. I had an SWR Workingmans 10 and I was never happy with the sound. I upgraded to a GK1001RBII and an Aguilar GS212 cab and I find that the same bass with the same strings etc sounds much fuller and thicker that it ever did with the SWR.

Just something to think about.

[JoeFern]

I've played fender's made in mexico bass, and in my opinion its sound sucks. my $200 dollar squire jazz had the same problem until I wound the PUPs in series. Sure, I lost some of that midcut, but now it has a much more powerful, growl-ish sound. Pickups matter one heck of alot in regards to your sound, and whether they're in series, parallel, or used individually matters just as much.

[line6man]

Originally Posted by JoeFern

Pickups matter one heck of alot in regards to your sound, and whether they're in series, parallel, or used individually matters just as much.

As anyone with series/parallel switches, humbucker/single coil switches, phase switches, etc. will tell you, there is a HUGE difference in sound between various ways of configuring the coils of a pickup/set of pickups.

I know, this is the second time that I've shouted with big fonts in this thread, but these points just can't be stressed enough!