Who is using a MIDI Interface, why, and what are the pros and cons ?

[wsmerwin@hotmai]

What interface do you use ? Do you have experience with others ? Do you perform live with your MIDI setup ? What would you fix / change about your current setup ? What equipment do you crave ? How do you amplify everything (MIDI Synth, controller) ? How often do you perform ? If you started today, knowing what you know about the available equipment, what would you buy (controller, interface, amp, speakers, stands, lights, comfortable shoes) ?

[fokof]

I have a good experience with MIDI setup , I can talk about it a bit.

One of the band I am playing with is a cover band , lots of 80's and bass synth sounds. My first move was to get a USB controller and trig synth sound from my laptop CPU.
Didn't went well as my kbd playing is very bad....
Playing was bad but it was the best "performing" setup I ever had with synth sounds.
In a couple of songs we do , I didn't have a good enough keyboard technique to play so I said to myself how Zabout my main instrument as a trigger.

I bought a Graphtech kit and installed it on one of my bass and I bought a Roland GI20. It does an OK job If you do Pads and etheral stuff in the upper register of the neck. If you play solo concerts and want to "update" the chords soloing or the chords/melody it can be a good thing.
One thing you have to know is that the tracking is very far from perfect so you have to adjust your playing and technique to fit that technology.

Now , if you're like me and don't do solo cocerts and just have to Groove tightly with a drummer , it really suc* a** big time.
The latency is around 80-110ms in the lower E section and the tracking is not good at all. If you play really simple lines and do it very cleanly , it's OK but the latency will make it sound "amateur" as you won't be able to groove in any way possible.
I also tried an Axon AX50 after reading in some internet group that it is Sooooo much better than the Roland , well guess what ?
Not true at all , as bad as the Roland.
The only way you could have a playable MIDI rig on a bass is to have a dedicated bass with Piccolo string and clean up your act big time. Even then ......

If you absolutly want a particular MIDI source the only other way I see is either learn how to play it on an USB controller or this (mucho $$$$ and I never tried it) ;
http://www.industrialradio.com.au/midi-bass.php

If you want "some general synthish sounds" a good avenue is this;http://www.rolandus.com/products/pro...ProductId=1000
I have one and I'm in nirvana. It's limited in the synth "palette" but it does it better than anything I've tried.
It's not MIDI , it emulates basses/FX/amps/some synths.
With all these trials and error , I wish the VB99 was out sooner than this. I lost a lot of money on this.....

EDIT: I started a thread on the VB99 if you want to learn more;
Roland VB-99

[wsmerwin@hotmai]

Thank you Fokof. Both your response to my question and your previous post about the VB-99 were quite helpful. I am having an eight string instrument with Graphtech piezo and MIDI pickups built by luthier Alex Watson. Can any interface manage eight strings instead of six ? I have the Roland MC 505 GrooveBox, an E-mu Vintage Keys, an M-Audio virtual synthesizer, and a couple of Yamaha PortaTone keyboards, all of which I hoped to control with my bass. It doesn’t sound as though I can expect to do that without LATENCY issues. I heard Kevin Keith on YouTube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1g3A3...eature=related and was fascinated with his use of the Roland Guitar Synthesizer. I haven’t tried to find out what his setup is http://www.kevinkeith.com/gear.html but I can see it’s AMAZING. Do you have any thoughts on his equipment choices or his playing ?

[fokof]

I haven't checked the clip till the end but looks like The synth sounds are trigged by the "guitar register" part of the Stick.
That's the main point with Pitch to MIDI today ; for guitar , it's working,
the latency is OK but for us bass player , it's not.

Like I said , latency is not an issue if you do "Airy" , "ambiant" stuff.
Becomes an issue with a drummer , click track or "time based" playing.

All the processors are made for 6 strings max.And all GK pick up are 6 strings. You'll have to install 2 Ghost kit in your bass and have two distinct processor to have 8 strings ability.

You should put the Ghost kit on the upper register strings only and adjust your technique acordingly.
The higher the pitch , the less latency you'll have.

You can see on the list of gear that you posted that the guy's Stick has 2 GK pickups.
I find his speaker choice strange (SWR) since it looks like he's doin lots of synth stuff
This list is not up to date. Lots of stuff on his list is long gone.

[wsmerwin@hotmai]

Thanks again Fokof for your help. I hope you don’t mind being a resource for information in what appears to be a very specialized field. What do you think of this guy http://www.roland.ca/default.asp?c=276 (Mathieu Gosselin) ? His setup seems current. (I’m dating myself here, but) do you remember when polyphony meant you could play as many notes as you had oscillators, and when you ran out of oscillators the lower notes would drop out. ? Isn’t this “note stealing” process possible with the Roland (or any) interface ? Can a program be written that would allow notes to be swapped between strings, or assigned to any of the eight strings on my “bass”? Would running two interfaces require two 13 pin jacks ? Would two interfaces provide twelve note polyphony or two sets of four notes (with eight strings) ? Is the arrangement of MIDI string assignments and polyphony up to me ? Is Roland (or any one) looking to increase the number of note sources and solve the latency issues for extended range instruments like the Stick ? How much adjustment to your playing is required to get a reasonable performance from your MIDI gear when your controller is a bass guitar ? Do faster pickups make any difference (I’m thinking of LightWave). My ideal is to control my MIDI equipment entirely with my eight string bass, is the technology available to do so effectively ?

P.S. I'm sending an e mail message to Kevin Keith to ask about his current setup.

[4Mal]

FWIW - I used a Godin A4 & GR-20. What I did was to play my lines an octave higher on the neck and transpose my patches an octave lower. That works well if you play clean. You simply have to play clean clear lines with midi bass. Given the state of the technology, tracking down low is just not there. Although I would hate it ... down low it almost needs to be predictive as it just takes too long to determine the difference between a low A and Ab, let alone F&E or C&B on a 5 string... or it needs to some stupidly electro-mechanical thing that determines which fret & string combo was hit.

I recently sold the Godin and moved off to Godin guitars for string driven synthesis. The MultiAC nylon is really, really good. Better than the XT/SA - I have both. They are both sweet guitars but the MultiAC seems to be the more consisten triggering device.

Next time I get the call for synthy bass - I'm either going to ignore it or just carry a small kbd controller and sound module.

[fokof]

Originally Posted by wsmerwin@hotmai

Thanks again Fokof for your help. I hope you don’t mind being a resource for information in what appears to be a very specialized field.

There are lots of other players who know a lot more than I do !
I probably have more spare time than they have !

Originally Posted by wsmerwin@hotmai

do you remember when polyphony meant you could play as many notes as you had oscillators, and when you ran out of oscillators the lower notes would drop out. ? Isn’t this “note stealing” process possible with the Roland (or any) interface ?

Personaly , I have a 5 stringer with a VB99 , so it's 5 way polyphony. Not a big problem.
I also use a recent Macbookpro with a 828mkIII for further processing and I've never have that problem. I can't see how you could face that type of problem with modern gear. Unless you do 100-200 chords at the same time........

Originally Posted by wsmerwin@hotmai

Can a program be written that would allow notes to be swapped between strings, or assigned to any of the eight strings on my “bass”?

Better than a program , hardware. It's called VB99.
You have two separate engine (sound generator) and you can assign the string you want to the processor you want.

Originally Posted by wsmerwin@hotmai

Would running two interfaces require two 13 pin jacks ?

Yep

Originally Posted by wsmerwin@hotmai

Would two interfaces provide twelve note polyphony or two sets of four notes (with eight strings) ?

If you have two processors , a VB99 for the low and a VG99 for the high , it is 12 note polyphony.

Originally Posted by wsmerwin@hotmai

Is the arrangement of MIDI string assignments and polyphony up to me ? Is Roland (or any one) looking to increase the number of note sources and solve the latency issues for extended range instruments like the Stick ?

There is no market for more than 6 string to put lots of R&D and developement and create hardware. Maybe small handmade/costum builders.......
For the latency problem , it's Physics. There has to be one full cycle to determine the pitch of a note , that's why there will always be a problem with bass.

Originally Posted by wsmerwin@hotmai

How much adjustment to your playing is required to get a reasonable performance from your MIDI gear when your controller is a bass guitar ?

A lot. If you have a VERY good technique , it can be easier , but you have to play VERY cleanly. If you already play on a Stick , you're halfway there.
Impossible to get a good performance in the lower register with MIDI.
That's why I ended up with a VB99.
Possible in the upper register , 12th fret + , D-G-C-F strings......
If you have Guitar type register (Piccolo bass, Stick ) It's OK. But not with Bass register.
Like I said multiple times , you can have a good tracking in the lower register but the latency is horrible.

Originally Posted by wsmerwin@hotmai

Do faster pickups make any difference (I’m thinking of LightWave). My ideal is to control my MIDI equipment entirely with my eight string bass, is the technology available to do so effectively ?

Really not sure this stuff IS faster. There is a circuit to convert the light to voltage , right ?
I would say normal pickup is faster...... But I ain't holding the thruth , just plain logic.
Anyways , you have to install a GK pickup in order to have any polyphony.

[fokof]

Originally Posted by 4Mal

Next time I get the call for synthy bass - I'm either going to ignore it or just carry a small kbd controller and sound module.

The VB99 is a good compromise........

A USB kbd will always work well !
I had problems with M-Audio products , but that another story ( end of rant)

[ajunea3]

I'm not sure if you're talking about all MIDI devices, or simply ones used to produce audio, but I use a Behringer MIDI foot pedal to control the lights for our show. We use 16 LED cans controlled by a DMX operating board. I simply stomp on the pedal to change light scenes.

[fokof]

Originally Posted by ajunea3

I'm not sure if you're talking about all MIDI devices,

Mostly a thread on pitch to MIDI

[wsmerwin@hotmai]

Originally Posted by fokof

Personaly , I have a 5 stringer with a VB99 , so it's 5 way polyphony. Not a big problem.
I also use a recent Macbookpro with a 828mkIII for further processing and I've never have that problem. I can't see how you could face that type of problem with modern gear. Unless you do 100-200 chords at the same time........

I was thinking about a single interface and eight strings, stealing notes from six prosessors to cover whatever strings were played. Is this possible ? Would it be an effective way to use the full range of the instrument without adding a second unit ?

[fokof]

The Hexaphonic system (GK) is based on 6 independant pickups.
The GK cable is 13 pins , all pins are used , so to have something like you say , you would have a lot of customization either on the bass or in a hardware unit.
You would also have to make another cable for 14-16 pins.

It will cost you lot less money (and time!) to simply use 2 GK system.

The only way I see possible of processing 8 strings the same way would be with 2 GK kits/jacks going to two RMC Fanout boxes and processed in a single computer (or 2 VB99)

http://www.rmcpickup.com/fanoutbox.html

[fokof]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is5QZAh0658