Why aren't all Jazz Bass pickups noise cancelling?

[BobaFret]

I'm currently looking to swap out my Lakland DJ4 PU's because I like to back off the front PU and don't like the hum it makes. I'm just curious what benefit if any does having them hum is there? Is it entirely a money issue or is the some other reason?

[uaudio]

Because, in many people's opinion, the 'noiseless' or hum-cancelling pups don't sound as good as single coils.

Personally, I think they're right. My active Fender Jazz with Noiseless pups sounded kind of anemic, no matter what I did with the preamp, including replacing the preamp. Best day I had with that particular guitar was the day I sold it.

[BobaFret]

So how does one record with the hum involved. Do you just leave it be and have it sit in the mix that way? If you have to leave them full on to keep it quiet it seems to lose all the flexibility that the volume knobs for the PU's give you.

[SuperDuck]

Originally Posted by BobaFret

So how does one record with the hum involved. Do you just leave it be and have it sit in the mix that way? If you have to leave them full on to keep it quiet it seems to lose all the flexibility that the volume knobs for the PU's give you.

Depending on how bad it is, it can likely be lost in the mix while you're playing. You can also use a gate to get rid of it when you're not playing, though that can almost call more attention to it than not.

There is one trick that usually (but not 100% of the time) works. If you're recording and sitting on a chair or stool or standing, just start turning in a circle. In most room you can hit a "sweet spot" where the single coil hum goes away. It sounds silly, I know. But I've recorded single coil a bunch of times and just rotated until the hum went away and recorded facing whatever direction that is. Goofy but effective!

[uaudio]

If you're soloing either pickup, you're going to have this problem and there's not much you can do. However, if you're simply rolling one pup off just a little and its really humming, you might want to reshield the controls. But with a Lakland, I can't believe they did a poor job with the shielding.

[tranceFusion]

I have tried a couple of well-respected humbucking jazz bass pickups, and they just don't sound the same. They are warmed and muffled.. you lose the highs and the aggressiveness of a jazz pickup.

While single coils only hum when you are soloing a pickup, humbucking jazz pickups make you lose tone ALL the time.

I would love to get rid of the hum and still keep the same sound, but I personally haven't found a perfect solution.

[BobaFret]

It sounds like the answer is "because nobody can make one that doesn't hum sound exactly like the ones that do". Thanks for the comments. I really like the tone I have so would rather have hum than something I never like the sound of.

[Bassamatic]

The first thing I do when I get a new bass is to remove the electronics and fully shield the cavities with copper foil, and ground it. This removes a GREAT deal of any hum pickup. Alternately -

1. Balance the pickups so they cancel the hum and adjust the sound with EQ.

2. I have installed a set of new Fender SCN noiseless pickups in my J-Bass. This hum is gone, the sound of the new pups is really good. However, output is a little lower.

Good luck!

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Gio S

The first thing I do when I get a new bass is to remove the electronics and fully shield the cavities with copper foil, and ground it. This removes a GREAT deal of any hum pickup. Alternately -

1. Balance the pickups so they cancel the hum and adjust the sound with EQ.

2. I have installed a set of new Fender SCN noiseless pickups in my J-Bass. This hum is gone, the sound of the new pups is really good. However, output is a little lower.

3. Just don't worry about a little hum. Can't hear it when you're playing, anyway.

[Godbody]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

3. Just don't worry about a little hum. Can't hear it when you're playing, anyway.

I think you are officially my forum hero.

I've been putting up with the atrocious noises my Jag makes for almost a year now, but I couldn't care less. I get the perfect tone when I play, so I can happily ignore what happens when i'm not playing.

[funkybass4ever]

Originally Posted by uaudio

If you're soloing either pickup, you're going to have this problem and there's not much you can do. However, if you're simply rolling one pup off just a little and its really humming, you might want to reshield the controls. But with a Lakland, I can't believe they did a poor job with the shielding.

I had no shielding on mynew Lakland DJ4 and had hum and buzz for miles, shielded everything but it should have already been shielded at the factory

[Bassamatic]

re: 3. Just don't worry about a little hum. Can't hear it when you're playing, anyway.

A LITTLE hum is no big deal, but I was near some light dimmers on a recent gig and the buzz was pretty loud, and annoying. That's when I bought the noiseless pickups.

[Rick Auricchio]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

3. Just don't worry about a little hum. Can't hear it when you're playing, anyway.

Learn the words, and you won't have to hum.

Seriously, though, there is a tone difference. For me, the hum is more of a problem than the change in tone.

[Trevorus]

I've used both DiMarzio Model J's, and I have a Jazz with Nordstrand NJ4's. Those are some amazing sounding pickups with no hum, and no lack of clarity.

[Liko]

Originally Posted by Rick Auricchio

Seriously, though, there is a tone difference. For me, the hum is more of a problem than the change in tone.

For me as well. My Jazz (a Mexi) has DiMarzio Ultra Jazz pickups in it. I like the tone even though it does have a little less bite, and more importantly, no hum, no how, no way.

I had some things to say about some misconceptions here. First off, there are two main sources of hum; static, which is quite simply free electrons that hit the pickup poles or windings, and magnetic, which is induced as a result of changing magnetic fields.

Static hum comes from many sources; compact flourescents, dimmer switches, CRT displays, basically anything which presents a very high resistance to AC current, or which operates by arcing electrical current, or in the case of a CRT, actually radiating a beam of electrons. It normally presents itself as white noise. Shielding will reduce or eliminate this type of noise.

Magnetic hum, on the other hand, is trickier. When current flows through a wire, that wire generates a magnetic field (which is why electromagnets work). Magnetic fields affect each other, and so your pickups' magnetic fields are disturbed by current flowing through the wiring in your house. A more significant source is electrical transformers; A big hunk of iron with wires wrapped around it, whose sole purpose is to turn electrical current into an induced magnetic field which then becomes an electrical current on the other end. Shielding is less effective against magnetic hum than static. It does work, but because of the very nature of a magnetic pickup, if the pickup faces the source of noice there's no getting rid of it.

There are shielded single-coil pickups. However, they can actually be even worse than humbuckers in terms of the tone difference. If you are not willing to go with a Jazz-size humbucker (and there are some really good ones out there, for this exact reason), turn off your compact flourescents, your computer monitor and your TV, and face away from your amp while playing. That's as good as it will get unless you want to play in a Farraday cage.

[funkybass4ever]

Originally Posted by Liko

For me as well. My Jazz (a Mexi) has DiMarzio Ultra Jazz pickups in it. I like the tone even though it does have a little less bite, and more importantly, no hum, no how, no way.

I had some things to say about some misconceptions here. First off, there are two main sources of hum; static, which is quite simply free electrons that hit the pickup poles or windings, and magnetic, which is induced as a result of changing magnetic fields.

Static hum comes from many sources; compact flourescents, dimmer switches, CRT displays, basically anything which presents a very high resistance to AC current, or which operates by arcing electrical current, or in the case of a CRT, actually radiating a beam of electrons. It normally presents itself as white noise. Shielding will reduce or eliminate this type of noise.

Magnetic hum, on the other hand, is trickier. When current flows through a wire, that wire generates a magnetic field (which is why electromagnets work). Magnetic fields affect each other, and so your pickups' magnetic fields are disturbed by current flowing through the wiring in your house. A more significant source is electrical transformers; A big hunk of iron with wires wrapped around it, whose sole purpose is to turn electrical current into an induced magnetic field which then becomes an electrical current on the other end. Shielding is less effective against magnetic hum than static. It does work, but because of the very nature of a magnetic pickup, if the pickup faces the source of noice there's no getting rid of it.

There are shielded single-coil pickups. However, they can actually be even worse than humbuckers in terms of the tone difference. If you are not willing to go with a Jazz-size humbucker (and there are some really good ones out there, for this exact reason), turn off your compact flourescents, your computer monitor and your TV, and face away from your amp while playing. That's as good as it will get unless you want to play in a Farraday cage.

very good info that is much appreciated

[chiplexic]

I've read a few articles and quite a few comments that the Nordstrand NJ4SV Split Hum Canceling Pickups hits the mark in maintaining single coil vintage qualities.

"These feature a split coil hum canceling design and are designed to have a tone as close as possible to the NJ4 single coils. They have a similar clarity and bottom, and have a good clean growl with the same interactive quality that all our alnico pickups are known to have. They are also totally hum canceling, and great for noisy live situations or applications where effects are used that amplify pickup noise."

[tranceFusion]

Originally Posted by chiplexic

I've read a few articles and quite a few comments that the Nordstrand NJ4SV Split Hum Canceling Pickups hits the mark in maintaining single coil vintage qualities.

"These feature a split coil hum canceling design and are designed to have a tone as close as possible to the NJ4 single coils. They have a similar clarity and bottom, and have a good clean growl with the same interactive quality that all our alnico pickups are known to have. They are also totally hum canceling, and great for noisy live situations or applications where effects are used that amplify pickup noise."

"as close as possible" are the important words here. It is still a humbucker. The highs are muted, and they sound too clean cut.. They do not achieve the vintage jazz bass sound.

Are they awesome pickups? YES! do they replace the need for single coil jazz pups? nope..

[Trevorus]

Originally Posted by tranceFusion

"as close as possible" are the important words here. It is still a humbucker. The highs are muted, and they sound too clean cut.. They do not achieve the vintage jazz bass sound.

Are they awesome pickups? YES! do they replace the need for single coil jazz pups? nope..

There's always a trade off, that's for sure. But for me, they DO replace singles just fine. Of course, I've usually preferred hum-cancelling in my jazzes. My first real bass, a Fender Jazz Deluxe had the stock big slug hum cancelling, then I changed those to DiMarzio Model J's, which are also hum cancelling. Then I had this current jazz with EMG-JV's, which were ok, but weren't quite my sound, so I went with Nordy NJ4SV's. Those are some SWEET pickups. For some reason, I've always gravitated towards them...

The odd thing is, though, my Reverend 5L has true single coils in it, and I haven't had the desire to change a thing.

[mrkreuzschlitz]

Here's what I do with my stock SX.

I play it how I like it when the band's all playing, then between songs, I cut the tone off. I have no buzz problems whatsoever. Nada. Zip. Zilch.

Then again, I didn't to begin with...

Still works though.