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08-18-2007, 04:47 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Wisconsin | | | Why can't you use Heavy Duty batteries in active electronics?
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I was at the local shop the other day for a bass checkup and the tech guy saw that I have a heavy duty battery in my bass. He told me that I should take it out and put in an alkaline battery but never explained why. So why can't you use Heavy Duty batteries in active electronics?
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08-18-2007, 05:08 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: St. Peters, MO | | | Well, you can but you'll see a) reduced life and b) possibly reduced headroom. |
08-19-2007, 03:39 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Wisconsin | | | So heavy duty batteries shorten the life of the electronics and cause clipping?
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08-19-2007, 03:48 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sunny St Pete, Florida | | | No. |
08-19-2007, 03:55 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Syracuse, NY | | | In 99.9% of cases, "Heavy Duty" batteries are alkaline. Your tech didn't know what he was talking about if he said otherwise. And there aren't any problems associated with using "Heavy Duty" batteries over any other alkaline. Some manufacturers just call them "heavy duty" (or industrial) and they're the exact same battery, while others do actually have more active material inside the case, which leads to a longer life overall. It mostly depends on the brand.
The reputable brands (Energizer, Rayovac, Duracell, etc.) do have more active material in their heavy duty/industrial lines. The smaller, off-brand companies may or may not.
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Last edited by rjny36 : 08-19-2007 at 04:00 PM.
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08-19-2007, 04:03 PM
|  | Less barking, more wagging! | | Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: San Diego, CA | | | Not a Rhetorical Question
As long as they consistently put out 9-volts, what's the difference? |
08-19-2007, 04:05 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Syracuse, NY | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzdogg  As long as they consistently put out 9-volts, what's the difference? | Great point. It doesn't.
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Originally Posted by betterRedthandead @ letsgowings.com "That's 'cause we just won a game. You should see this place after a loss or two. You'll think Mikael Samuelsson had killed everyone's grandma." | |
08-19-2007, 04:23 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: St. Peters, MO | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomis17 So heavy duty batteries shorten the life of the electronics and cause clipping? | Sorry, I meant shorter battery life, not electronic life. I've used many types of heavy duty and alkaline batteries in many applications and have yet to see a heavy duty last anywhere near the life span of an alkaline. Also, heavy duty batteries are typically *not* the same (they're typically zinc chloride) as alkalines. Perhaps there's a brand rjny36 has seen which contains the same ingredients but I've never seen such a thing.
Here's a nice guide to different battery types: http://michaelbluejay.com/batteries/
Sorry, guys, but all batteries are *not* created equal. |
08-19-2007, 04:27 PM
|  | Registered User | | Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Michigan | | | The difference is in the way that different batteries discharge. Alkaline batteries start out at 9 volts and output 9 volts rather steadily until they reach their limit. At this point, the voltage drops off quickly. Lots of other batteries start out at 9 volts and gradually output less and less voltage until they die. The tech was likely advising the use of alkaline batteries because they put out a useful voltage for a longer period of time before they die.
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08-19-2007, 04:37 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: St. Peters, MO | | Quote:
Originally Posted by bass-shy The difference is in the way that different batteries discharge. Alkaline batteries start out at 9 volts and output 9 volts rather steadily until they reach their limit. At this point, the voltage drops off quickly. Lots of other batteries start out at 9 volts and gradually output less and less voltage until they die. The tech was likely advising the use of alkaline batteries because they put out a useful voltage for a longer period of time before they die. | +1 |
08-19-2007, 07:04 PM
| | Less barking, more wagging! | | Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: San Diego, CA | | Quote:
Originally Posted by optikhog Sorry, I meant shorter battery life, not electronic life. I've used many types of heavy duty and alkaline batteries in many applications and have yet to see a heavy duty last anywhere near the life span of an alkaline. Also, heavy duty batteries are typically *not* the same (they're typically zinc chloride) as alkalines. Perhaps there's a brand rjny36 has seen which contains the same ingredients but I've never seen such a thing.
Here's a nice guide to different battery types: http://michaelbluejay.com/batteries/
Sorry, guys, but all batteries are *not* created equal. | Thank you: an opinion supported by facts, citations, and reasoning always trumps unsupported conclusions, no matter how valid. |
08-19-2007, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by bass-shy The difference is in the way that different batteries discharge. Alkaline batteries start out at 9 volts and output 9 volts rather steadily until they reach their limit. At this point, the voltage drops off quickly. Lots of other batteries start out at 9 volts and gradually output less and less voltage until they die. The tech was likely advising the use of alkaline batteries because they put out a useful voltage for a longer period of time before they die. | This is absolutely correct information, and hence your tech guy was right. Heavy duties can be fine for other applications where a constant 9 volts is not required during the battery lifetime, but for a preamp you definitely want the steady 9 volts and a rapid death. |
08-19-2007, 08:15 PM
|  | Total Hyper-Elite Member | | Join Date: May 2000 Location: Groom Lake, NV | | | Actually, it's better to use "Heavy Duty" batteries if you want that "Heavy Duty" sound.
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08-19-2007, 08:52 PM
|  | Supporting Member and fetch player | | Join Date: May 2003 Location: Colorado, USA | | I'm gonna' try these lithium batteries and see how they do. They are supposed to last something like 5 times longer than an alkaline. http://www.powerbug.com/
Speaking of alkaline, who here remembers Al Kaline, the right fielder for the Detroit Tigers in the '50s and '60s? He was my favorite ball player as a kid! 
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08-19-2007, 09:07 PM
|  | Remember 12/21/2012! ...it's my birthday! | | Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Cheviot, OH | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Modulrob a rapid death. | RAPID DEATH?!?! OH NO!  LOL
I didn't know it made a difference either. Guess ya learn something new everyday. Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodyG3 Speaking of alkaline, who here remembers Al Kaline, the right fielder for the Detroit Tigers in the '50s and '60s? He was my favorite ball player as a kid! | I always thought his name was funny! My favorite from that period is the "Big Klu" Ted Kluszadifdopaiowski (not sure on the spelling there but he played for the Reds).
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08-19-2007, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by NKUSigEp RAPID DEATH?!?! OH NO! LOL
I didn't know it made a difference either. Guess ya learn something new everyday. | yeah...I encourage all to find someone else trustworthy on the subject and ask them (a preamp or pedal manufacturer or dealer....most of them recommend alkaline for this reason.) Also keep this grain of salt in mind when reading varying reviews of preamps and pedals sounding like crap or being noisy. What is the power source? Regular or heavy duty batteries will decrease voltage output quickly...still providing power, but often introducing unwanted noise. |
08-20-2007, 01:50 AM
|  | Registered User | | Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: NYC vicinity | | Quote:
Originally Posted by rjny36 In 99.9% of cases, "Heavy Duty" batteries are alkaline. Your tech didn't know what he was talking about if he said otherwise. And there aren't any problems associated with using "Heavy Duty" batteries over any other alkaline. Some manufacturers just call them "heavy duty" (or industrial) and they're the exact same battery, while others do actually have more active material inside the case, which leads to a longer life overall. It mostly depends on the brand.
The reputable brands (Energizer, Rayovac, Duracell, etc.) do have more active material in their heavy duty/industrial lines. The smaller, off-brand companies may or may not. | +1! |
08-20-2007, 08:34 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Wisconsin | | Man this is very useful information! Thanks so much for all inputs! Makes more sense now. 
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08-21-2007, 06:30 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Memphis | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Modulrob yeah...I encourage all to find someone else trustworthy on the subject and ask them (a preamp or pedal manufacturer or dealer....most of them recommend alkaline for this reason.) Also keep this grain of salt in mind when reading varying reviews of preamps and pedals sounding like crap or being noisy. What is the power source? Regular or heavy duty batteries will decrease voltage output quickly...still providing power, but often introducing unwanted noise. | Actually it is very common to use standard aka: "Heavy Duty" batteries in distortion devices, just to get that old skool battery sag. Guitar players like Eric Johnson swear by using the old style batteries to get the old skool Hendrix style sound, that is the batteries they had to use back then.  ... I use heavy duty batteries in my Roger Mayer Voodoo bass ... Lithium in everything else. |
08-21-2007, 09:16 AM
| | Registered User
Owner/designer; SGD Lutherie | | Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Montclair, NJ, USA | | Quote:
Originally Posted by rjny36 In 99.9% of cases, "Heavy Duty" batteries are alkaline. | No, if they don't say "alkaline" than they are zinc-chloride batteries, which are an improved version of zinc-carbon batteries.
If you really want a long lasting battery, get a Lithium 9v. They cost an arm and a leg though.
From Wikipedia: Quote: Alkaline batteries are a type of power cell dependent upon the reaction between zinc and manganese dioxide (Zn/MnO2).
Compared with traditional zinc-carbon batteries, while both produce approximately 1.523 volts per cell, alkaline batteries have a higher energy density and longer shelf-life.
A Zinc-carbon dry cell or battery is packaged in a zinc can that serves as both a container and anode. It was developed from the wet Leclanché cell. "Super" or "Heavy Duty" batteries, technically called zinc chloride cells, are an improved version from the cheaper "General Purpose" variety.
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Last edited by DavidRavenMoon : 08-21-2007 at 09:25 AM.
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