Why does a "PJ" configuration sound so refined and elegant?

[Duckwater]

^ That's my experience with a lot of P/J basses, some of them manage to get around the issue somewhat.

[johnk_10]

Originally Posted by Duckwater

^ That's my experience with a lot of P/J basses, some of them manage to get around the issue somewhat.

i've played and worked on more than a couple of 100 of them and i agree that some work better than others, but 'somewhat' better just never worked for me.

[BassLife77]

I was tempted to buy this P/J bass off craigslist and I see the P is real close to the J and was wondering what it sounded like. This is a Louis Johnson's Treker bass from the 80's. There is an "active boost" switch which makes the bass louder probably for solos

[grendle]

Originally Posted by johnk_10

i realize that there's alot of love for it (especially in this thread), but the P J setup just doesn't do it at all for me. i love the p pickup by itself, but when you run the j pickup with it (especially with both pickups on full, but even with any amount of blending), the E & A sound so much different than the D & G due to the P's split locations, that the different phasing that takes place makes it sound like two different basses split right down the middle of the neck. IMO, two 'straight-across' pickups (like a jazz bass a ric, or an HH ray) sounds much better. two split P's, or reversed P's, would also work fine, but the standard split p/j bass thing just sounds so thin on the D & G that i find the configuration unusable.

Never found that to be the case. They all sound even on my basses. The pj is just meaner and more mid forward sounding than a dc or mm style pup.

[johnk_10]

Originally Posted by grendle

Never found that to be the case. They all sound even on my basses. The pj is just meaner and more mid forward sounding than a dc or mm style pup.

that's strange, it does it on every single one them that i've played (on some it's more drastic than others, but it's stil there on all of them). IME, it's just the 'nature of the beast'. whenever you have two pickups on at the same time, phase cancellations occur, and the phasing is more prevalent the closer the pickups are together. i'll post a sound clip tomorrow using one that i am servicing for a friend to demonstrate what i mean.

[Spaldo]

Originally Posted by 8liter

PJ setup on my BB614 is just awesome.

+1 to that! These basses kill

[grendle]

Originally Posted by johnk_10

that's strange, it does it on every single one them that i've played (on some it's more drastic than others, but it's stil there on all of them). IME, it's just the 'nature of the beast'. whenever you have two pickups on at the same time, phase cancellations occur, and the phasing is more prevalent the closer the pickups are together. i'll post a sound clip tomorrow using one that i am servicing for a friend to demonstrate what i mean.

Cool.

[johnk_10]

Originally Posted by grendle

Cool.

BTW, in your avatar, that green bass has a Reverse P/J configuration, and IMO, and while the E & A will still have a different amount of phasing vs the D & G, IMO, that actually works better than the standard P/J config.

[grendle]

True. I didn't doubt you, just never heard it.

[JimmyM]

That effect is way less exaggerated with EMG's, though. I guess EMG built in compensation.

[blendermassacre]

Originally Posted by johnk_10

i've played and worked on more than a couple of 100 of them and i agree that some work better than others, but 'somewhat' better just never worked for me.

Totally agree. I love the neck pup in Jazz basses, and not having the P sweet spot is weird for me too, as some of them are.

Also, I hate the look. Something about it feels unbalanced to me. There are a ton of basses I've seen / played with the "if only this was a P OR a J..."

[blendermassacre]

Originally Posted by BassLife77

I was tempted to buy this P/J bass off craigslist and I see the P is real close to the J and was wondering what it sounded like. This is a Louis Johnson's Treker bass from the 80's. There is an "active boost" switch which makes the bass louder probably for solos

it looks like the P pup is in the sweet spot, so I'd say that it probably sounds better than most.

[SurferJoe46]

Originally Posted by blendermassacre

it looks like the P pup is in the sweet spot, so I'd say that it probably sounds better than most.

I'm not TOTALLY buying into the 'sweet-spot' idea since it moves when you put your fingers on a string anyplace on the neck.

I think that there are tendencies for the P-p'ups in the neck forward position to pick up a little less 'shrillness' if you will.

Totally discounting super hot - and special wound p'ups - and all things stock (whatever that may be) and in relative 'normal' positions, a P-p'up will have deeper voicing that a J-p'up I am sure, if they can be gotten in the same ballpark for output voltages, etc.

OK - I may be off on somewhat of a limb there, but I think one can understand my thoughts.

Having built that mirror-reversed P bass, I can say that it indeed has it's own very unique voice when they are blended. Blended TOGETHER, they go into that mystical piano sound arena.

The bridge p'ups are incredibly powerful in that normally J-land position.

Being closer to the bridge where the sound SHOULD be thinner, the p'ups really crank out a lot of definition and all the while still boom a lot of dark lows.

[sotua]

Originally Posted by jrcorp

Well there's an interesting idea for a bass. On the surface it seems like it would solve the output balance issue, and I'm sure the P pickup would sound great for rock at the bridge. I wonder how it all compares to a traditional P/J... can bridge J sounds be had?

I'm not sure. All I can say is that Nick Beggs blew my mind with one a month or so ago. This is from another show (seems like Mr. Wilson polices youtube rather agressively... the ones from my city went down three days after the show).

Steven Wilson - Luminol
(btw, Nick looked ultra-cool in the suit, the dark glasses and... white braids. ***?)

And of course, there's that damned Ed Friedland who fuels gas undending, this time with a reverseP-J warwick:

Ed Friedland reviews Warwick Limited edition Streamer LX4

[johnk_10]

Originally Posted by SurferJoe46

I'm not TOTALLY buying into the 'sweet-spot' idea since it moves when you put your fingers on a string anyplace on the neck.

if a p bass pickup is in a different location than the p bass's stock 'sweet-spot', it's tone will have a different harmonic balance than one that does, and playing it in different places on the neck has nothing to do with that.

[SurferJoe46]

Ya mean that the string doesn't get shorter if I play on the 12th fret?

How's that working for ya?

[johnk_10]

Originally Posted by SurferJoe46

Ya mean that the string doesn't get shorter if I play on the 12th fret?

How's that working for ya?

not at all. the string is shorter but the pickup location hasn't moved with it.
IMO, you're thinking about it wrong. if the sweet spot didn't make a difference in its harmonic balance, you could put the pickup anywhere and it would sound the same.

BTW, the P and reverse P arrangement that you have on the yellow bass exacerbates the diffence in phasing issues when both pickups are on even more than the P J or reverse P J arrangement.

[jrcorp]

For what it's worth (nothing?), this bassist with far less experience, expertise, and training of the ears hasn't ever noticed a problem with his reverse-P/J. I need to put more time in on my instrument.

[Rutherford_Fan]

Originally Posted by grendle

+1

90% or better of guys run the p and j up full (balance in the middle or just slightly panned). The individual pickup thing isn't really where those basses want to be . The magic is in the bass / treb controls of the pre and slight variations from center on the balance. You can do it, but it wasn't really what it was designed for. It's not really a P with a J, its a p/j combo if that makes sense. Once you figure it out, its cool. Used mine for everything from children's albums to death metal.

Yes. The whole "perfect/magic" tone that I outlined in the start of the thread inevitably involves using both the P and J pickup, both nearly equally (although I sometimes tend to favor the P pickup slightly for some reason).

[SurferJoe46]

Originally Posted by johnk_10

not at all. the string is shorter but the pickup location hasn't moved with it.
IMO, you're thinking about it wrong. if the sweet spot didn't make a difference in its harmonic balance, you could put the pickup anywhere and it would sound the same.

BTW, the P and reverse P arrangement that you have on the yellow bass exacerbates the diffence in phasing issues when both pickups are on even more than the P J or reverse P J arrangement.

The sweet spot moves in relation to where the string it at a certain part of it's oscillation. If you move up the neck, the sweet spot does too.

Seriously, I bet if I asked you to urinate on me if I caught on fire - you'd say 'No'. Is there anything besides selling out that you'd like me to do too?