Why don't basses use balanced audio jacks like microphones?

[warnergt]

I know the 1/4" plug has a long tradition with guitars and basses but I would have thought that, at some point along the way, they would have switched to balanced lines such as those used quite commonly for microphones.

Is it because they figure we like the noise?

[TrevorOfDoom]

same reason all amp and cab manufacturers haven't switched exclusively to Speak-on. too much hassle changing everything over.

[meev992]

you could possibly wire it up yourself...good luck working in an "unbalanced cable" world.

[22pauld22]

I have a bass with a DI in it as standard .. it has both a 1/4 inch and a xlr
very handy in the home studio .. or studio for that matter .. but what bass amps have a balanced input ..

plus most basses these day have a stereo 1/4 inch to turn the batteries on and off for the pre and/or pickups

so there are a few other things that would have to be addressed

[JansenW]

Too bad they didn't. They could have also added phantom power so we wouldn't have to worry about batteries!

[JimmyM]

Makes hooking up a wireless much easier to use 1/4"

But seriously, I really don't think it matters if you use balanced. For the hassle and cost of doing it, you won't get any significant noise reduction. About the only thing it will improve is if you want to use an extra long cable.

[IanStephenson]

My old hohner steinberger has an xlr/di out.

Actually hooking up my wireless would be easier - it has a balanced mini-xlr in (and comes with a converter cable to 1/4" jack.

It wouldn't be too scary for a manufacturer to switch over, as they'd just have to supply it with a converter cable, and you could convert the rest of your system as needed.

It's just one of those things - would be a good idea, but who's going to risk making the jump first. Setting a new standard is pretty impossible, and only a few people would appreciate the difference - most would look on it as hassle.

Or maybe it's a conspiracy by the makers of di boxes...

Ian

[meev992]

Originally Posted by IanStephenson

Or maybe it's a conspiracy by the makers of di boxes...

Ian

i always felt that there was a conspiracy...and then my singer told met that there's Hi-z and super Hi-z inputs on her Powered PA system...

It doesn't sound great, but it works.

[DavidRavenMoon]

Originally Posted by warnergt

I know the 1/4" plug has a long tradition with guitars and basses but I would have thought that, at some point along the way, they would have switched to balanced lines such as those used quite commonly for microphones.

Heartfield basses used to come with an XLR option.

I've been contemplating doing this on my basses. Of course if you use effects you need a breakout box, or an effects loop.

Most basses don't have balanced outputs. You would need to add a transformer with a passive bass. It's fairly easy with active electronics.

Originally Posted by warnergt

Is it because they figure we like the noise?

Well considering all the single coil Jazz Basses out there, I guess people do like noise!

I wont use single coils, except in my 1974 Ric. (and even then I changed the pickups... but I'm restoring it to stock just to have it stock).

[newfuture]

Alembic also made (make?) some basses with Balanced XLR outputs. I think it's a great idea, especially for recording.

Unfortunately, for most applications it's a bit of a third nipple: not too many bass amps have balanced XLR intputs. Even the trace elliot I've got that has an XLR input isn't balanced; pin 3 is not connected, and pins 1 and 2 are wired parallel with the Sleeve and Tip of the 1/4" input.

[cybersnyder]

1) Passive basses will never use them, so the manufacturers don't want 2 standards.

2) They cost more than a 1/4" jack

3) They are larger and may not fit on the edge of some basses.

4) Are you going to change the inputs on pedals, amps, etc? Or you would need a converter.

5) Not enough benefits to make it worthwhile.

[jro]

My Wal Mk II has a 1/4" jack and an XLR. Its nice for recording but thats about it.

[DavidRavenMoon]

Originally Posted by newfuture

Alembic also made (make?) some basses with Balanced XLR outputs. I think it's a great idea, especially for recording.

Alembic's actually have a 4 pin XLR jack. That's for power and the stereo outputs. So it's not actually a balanced out.

You don't need that for recording... any active bass can be plugged right into the board. That's what I do at home.

[A9X]

Why no XLR? Well, Leo was known for being cheap, an single ended and phone jack is cheap. And everyone copied him.

Les Paul was a proponent of balanced outputs, but nothing ever came of it. Balanced is much easier to do with a preamp as getting transformers to work with a variable high Z source is difficult and expensive. Done correctly, ie differential input, individual buffered pre, transformer out and phantom power (10mA is limiting though) is the perfect implementation. But as what we have now works, and there is a huge inertia to change, then I don't ever see it happening this lifetime outside of customs or DIY jobs.

Originally Posted by DavidRavenMoon

Alembic's actually have a 4 pin XLR jack. That's for power and the stereo outputs. So it's not actually a balanced out.

5 pin, but otherwise correct. There's +/-18V, two outputs and a ground. The electronics are current hogs compared to the usual battery operated stuff (pair 9V lasts 40 hours) and sounds much better for it.

[DavidRavenMoon]

Originally Posted by A9X

5 pin, but otherwise correct. There's +/-18V, two outputs and a ground. The electronics are current hogs compared to the usual battery operated stuff (pair 9V lasts 40 hours) and sounds much better for it.

You know, if I had thought about it for a moment I would have figured 4 was not enough pins!

Thanks for the clarification. I don't own any of the beasts, just admire them from afar.

[brianrost]

XLRs have been around a long time, but as late as the early 1980s there was still lots of bar-band PA gear with only unbalanced inputs. 1950s era PAs often used screw on unbalanced Amphenol connectors and mikes using that connector were still available in the late 70s.

As someone else noted, a balanced connection for a passive bass would require either a transformer or designing balanced pickups.

Gibson made some Les Paul guitars and basses with passive balanced low-Z outputs (as well as some amps with balanced inputs) in the early 1970s but dropped the idea almost immediately. The impedance matching transformer found on today's Epi Jack Casady basses is the last remnant of that design.

[knuckle_head]

A standard stereo jack can do a balanced signal if you are willing to couple the shielding to the common ground.

There was a huge to-do back in the day over which to embrace, and what we have didn't win out because the connectors were cheaper. Hi-Z won out because it halved what was required in the signal chain for preamplification and tone processing.

It would be a stretch for some bassists to embrace, but Mic channel strips would be perfect bass front ends. The Symetrix 528e springs immediately to mind. As well the new Pod Pro has a balanced mic level input and can process it as any instrument you like.

Many up-sides to this...

[DavidRavenMoon]

Originally Posted by knuckle_head

It would be a stretch for some bassists to embrace, but Mic channel strips would be perfect bass front ends.

At home I just plug into either my Behringer Eurorack MX 1604A, or my Roland VM-3100Pro mixers. I've become so accustomed to hearing my bass that way that I have to compare amps I try out to the sound I get playing through my home studio setup.

So I can see where a nice mic pre and channel strip, plus a power amp and PA cab (or powered PA cab) is the direction I'm heading.

[elros]

Originally Posted by brianrost

As someone else noted, a balanced connection for a passive bass would require either a transformer or designing balanced pickups.

Well, pickups aren't un-balanced by design.... in its simplest version the pickup is just a coil, much the same as a dynamic microphone. It should be perfectly OK to wire the single coil pickup directly to a balanced output, and have the signal be perfecly balanced.

I figure that the main reason not to have balanced outputs on guitars is that we like volume controls and pickup selectors, and these things become much more complicated if you would want a fully balanced signal path from the pickups to the output.

[Akirabanana]

There is a balanced input on my Little Mark II head.
hmmm maybe they onto something I don't know about