why don't I like my Fralin single coils ?

[pfschim]

Ok, this is not really a whine thread. (not intended to be anyway )

I have 2 Jazz basses. One is a very nice Lull M4V with the Fralin single coils and the bart 2 band eq, the other is the Am Deluxe Active Jazz with the SCM and std Fender active electronics.

I like the feel and playability of both basses. Different animals for sure, but both good.

That being said however, I find it much easier to get that meaty Fender Jazz tone from the Fender (well duh .. I guess) The Fralin equipped Lull is harder to dial in a tone that I like. What are the characteristics of this ? ... the Fralin's sound thinner, perhaps more harsh in the upper mids and highs, maybe "too bright", and also seem to lack some deep lows. The Fender (all controls up, pup sweep pot on dead center) just sounds better to me; that meaty low-mid plus growly Fender buzzy mid thing just happens automatically.

FWIW, both basses are strung the same with Fender all nickel 7150ML's.

So how do these pups differ that makes them sound so different, and are there other pups that might make the Lull sound better for my target tone ? I'm sure there are, I'm looking for some input on this.

[pbass2]

I had the same experience with the stock Fralin's in my US Glaub. They had plenty of bite, but were thin on the bottom, to the point that my E string seemed weak compared to the rest of the bass. And the upper mids were "raspy" to my ears.
I ended up putting Duncan custom shop pickups in it and the difference in low end, output(they're way louder) and overall meatiness is like night and day.

[joeyl]

the acid test would be to swap the pickups and see if maybe if the difference is due to the woods used/finish or bridge etc. but probably not that noticeable.

Also personally I never cared for the bart preamps, seems like they made my bass bland sounding, but that's just me

[r379]

Originally Posted by joeyl

Also personally I never cared for the bart preamps, seems like they made my bass bland sounding, but that's just me

And maybe that's the problem.

Fralin's single coil PUs were designed for a vintage sound that may not work as well with a preamp as they do passive. Caveat: I don't do active so I may be shooting without aiming here.

[pfschim]

Originally Posted by r379

And maybe that's the problem.

Fralin's single coil PUs were designed for a vintage sound that may not work as well with a preamp as they do passive. Caveat: I don't do active so I may be shooting without aiming here.

I hear what you're saying here, but the Lull was built that way, so I'm expecting that Mike knows what he is doing when picking electronic components for his basses. But, maybe not .. I don 't really know (I'm guessing he does ). And, when I flip the Lull into passive mode, it still has the light on the bottom, somewhat harsh mids/highs (to my ears) sound anyway.

I think the Fralin single coils go into many other active systems. I know that Lakland has used them in some of their older models (and offers them as options in the newer models too) before they moved to their own design pups.

As far as on-board pre's go, I'm ok with the Bart system. I have another one in a Lakland 44-02 deluxe fretless 4 and it sounds fine to my ears. Totally different thing with the bart Jazz neck + humbucker bridge setup on this older 44-02, but sounds good.

[Type-55]

The Fralins have a raw sound in the mids,upper mids and treble. Not really a vintage sound. This is because Lindy uses 100% charged Alnico 5 magnets. A vintage sound, to my ears has a warmer, smoother tone. Mike has the Fralins underwound to compensate for the high gain Bart pre. Not a good combo IMHO. I has this exact Lull combo and finally realized the pre and pup are not a good match. I really like the Antiquity 1's and the Jason Lollar's for a true vintage sound. Warm, sweet and very musical. These are the best vintage J pups. IMHO. If you want to stick with the Bart pre they really sound best with Bart pups. Again low output pups and a high gain pre.

[TrevorOfDoom]

tell you what... if you really don't like your fralin's, i'll take 'em off your hands. just send 'em to me, and everything will be alright.

[basadam]

Originally Posted by joeyl

the acid test would be to swap the pickups and see if maybe if the difference is due to the woods used/finish or bridge etc.

+1

I am not particularly fan of Fralins (that would be Aeros). But once I did an extensive AB test between the two, swapped pickups on different basses. Initially I liked the one with Aeros, but after putting in Fralins I realized I still like the same bass.

but probably not that noticeable.

I was noticeable to me. The way how the bass tone did not change a lot that is.

Note that IMHE this is only true when comparing same type of pickups (single-coils vs single-coils). Doing a similar comparison with DiMarzio Model Js yielded different results.

[Arthur U. Poon]

pfschim,
you may want to run your tone findings past Mike. Possibly he can recommend a different set of pickups.



I need a fatter, more mid-heavy tone for a recording project that I'm working on. I just emailed Mike to see if there's a direct replacement set of HC's that he recommends. I'm thinking a set of Bartolini's would work nicely. When I'm done recording, I'll most likely put the Duncan's back in.

[pickles]

The American Deluxe Jazz has a great sound, very modern! I think you should look at modern Jazz pickups for the Lull instead of vintage replicas. DiMarzo UltraJazz comes to mind.

But it'll never sound exactly like the fender ...

[4Mal]

I thought the Fralins were also a little harsh. In a similar - 'vintage raw' kind of pickup my take is that Aero Type 1's are the pick.

I'm also not a fan of the Bart pre but if you aren't playing with the EQ much it's OK - Audere would be my pick there - but frankly you're going to hear more of the Fralins through it so maybe not the first thing I would try in this case.

I would be inclinded to give the Norstrand J pickup a shot. I like some of their others, haven't had the opportunity to mess with the J pickup though.

Not like you need to mess with the Deluxe but I used a set of Bart 9J's in one and for a smooth jazz thing - it was a great pairing - I'm no Bart fan but that setup flat out worked.

[lambro]

vintage vibe with massive tone, not lacking in low mids or lows in any way

they're just phenomenal

[Lorenzini]

I recommend selling the Fralins and putting new pickups in the Lull.

I had a Joe Osborne 5 with Fralins that I could never bring myself to like... due to the Fralins.

[Type-55]

I will second the Jason Lollar pups.
The best vintage single J out there.

[SteveC]

I have always liked the Bart preamp. I have it with Bart hum cancelling singles in my Yamaha and it sounds great - to me. Of course, I assume that they are supposed to sound good together.

I have also used Ultra Jazz pups with great success.

[BartmanPDX]

I tried some 5% overwound steel-pole piece Fralins in my Sadowsky and didn't care for them in that bass. What I learned though, was that the real problem was the alder/rosewood construction of the bass. It just didn't have the snap I was looking for to go with the Fralin singles. I switched the bass back to a PJ configuration and like the results much better.

I dropped the Fralins in my Squier VM Jazz mod project (maple) and am thrilled with the results. I guess what I'm saying is that some pickups work better with some woods than others. I didn't believe tone was affected much at all by the wood until I experienced all this.

[BuffaloBass]

I had the same issue with Nordy NJ5's. Then I went to a vintage Lakland pup, and its almost too much low, but OK except for the clarity issue.

AEROS. Vintage lows ( actually lower) , great high end clarity, articulate, best freq response out there hands down.

[kerryg]

that someone had routed into a PJ config. It sounded muddy to my ears except when it sounded too thin and barky on the J. So I ordered a set of Sadowsky PJs and threw them in, thinking "poor man's Sadowsky".

Bzzzt. Still veered between muddy and barky. It seemed it was the wood combo that just wasn't making it. So I sold it and just got a MIM P that someone had hand-selected out of a stack of them and upgraded with Duncan Basslines in it. It kicks butt (although I haven't gigged it yet); tight focused bottom, a bottom five notes on the E string that have that great woody grunt and grind without mud, a real keeper.

So it would seem to me that pickups aren't the silver bullet here but discovering that mystical combination of wood and pickup that match the tone you hear in your head.

I blew off a Sadowsky metro that had a great tone but wasn't cutting it for giving me "my" tone. If that Lull doesn't have what you want after a pickup change, don't waste any more effort trying to teach it to sing your song - accept that it's singing its own, sell it to someone who's looking for that particular song (or someone who cares more about a word on a headstock than a sound out of a speaker), and move on.

[pfschim]

Hey, great posts/replies. Lots to think about .. maybe thats not such a great thing though ... I really just want to tame the tone on this bass a bit in the most simple and direct way possible.

I also wanted to say that I am not dumping on the Lull. It plays very sweetly ... it's really the best fretted bass I have when lots of fingerstyle articulation is called for. The Fender is more of a truck to the Lull's sports car .. if you know what I'm sayin' . It also "cuts through" a bit more than the Fender in my most regular band situation, probably due to the more pronounced mids and present highs of the Fralins. So, please don't take any of my comments as negative about the Lull, I do like it and it's staying in my arsenal.

So, of all the advice, I think the best is to call Mike and talk this through with him (Thanks Mr. Poon). I had some prior dealings with him after I bought the M4V and found him to be a great person to talk basses with.

Thanks to all who replied and TrevorOfDoom, if I decide to unload the Fralin's .. I'll let you know.

[Type-55]

Lulls are fantastic basses. You might want to try Duncan Antiquity's II for a fatter sound.
I just happen to have a pair for sale.