Why to Jazz and P/J basses sound different?

[blastjv]

I know a lot of this is subjective, but to satisfy my own curiosity I was wondering:

When I play my jazz bass using only the neck pickup it sounds VERY much like a P bass. I think this is a pretty well established opinion. I'm not arguing that it is EXACTLY the same, but I think it's fair to say it has a VERY similar overall sound.

When I play with only the bridge pickup it has that familiar 'Jaco' type tone.

When I play with both pickups on full volume, it sounds like a jazz bass with both pickups on full (duh). This is how I play almost all the time.

SO, my question is, why then do a jazz bass and a P/J bass sound so different? If a jazz neck pickup solo'ed sounds so much like a P pickup, why is there such a difference?

I'm not arguing for or against anything, just trying to understand the reason.


-John

[mccartneyman]

There's a slightly different characteristic between the P and J PUPs, and some folks can hear it more than others. I favor the P sound but also like the J. That's why I just ordered on of the new Squier Vintage Modified Jaguars -- Jag body, Jazz neck, P & J PUPs. Like having three basses in one.

[funkybassinator]

Originally Posted by blastjv

I know a lot of this is subjective, but to satisfy my own curiosity I was wondering:

When I play my jazz bass using only the neck pickup it sounds VERY much like a P bass. I think this is a pretty well established opinion. I'm not arguing that it is EXACTLY the same, but I think it's fair to say it has a VERY similar overall sound.

When I play with only the bridge pickup it has that familiar 'Jaco' type tone.

When I play with both pickups on full volume, it sounds like a jazz bass with both pickups on full (duh). This is how I play almost all the time.

SO, my question is, why then do a jazz bass and a P/J bass sound so different? If a jazz neck pickup solo'ed sounds so much like a P pickup, why is there such a difference?

I'm not arguing for or against anything, just trying to understand the reason.


-John

Not in the slightest. Sorry about that.

[CapnSev]

Because one has a P pickup and the other a J?


IMHO, a soloed neck pickup on a jazz does not sound like a P. Granted, they are in the same spot, but the jazz pup is a straight-across single coil bar and kinda gives that old '51 P sound, whereas the P pup is a split coil humbucker-type that covers more surface area, and has sort of that hollow hump to it.

I think the inherent qualities of the two different pickups will change things quite a bit when they are running with a second bridge pickup.

[blastjv]

Are you disagreeing that this is 'well established', or that it sounds like a P, or both? (that's fine, like I said, I'm not trying to 'take a stand' on anything, just wondering about the differences)

FWIW, I was a dedicated P player for many years and to my ear a J on the neck only pickup sounds a lot like a P. Again, this is all very subjective.


-John

[Chrisk-K]

When I play my jazz bass using only the neck pickup it sounds VERY much like a P bass.

What kind of J do you have? When their neck pickup is soloed, my Geddy Lee J and Lakland DJ do NOT sound like my MIA P at all.

[4Mal]

Typical J pickup is much lower output than a typical P - there is more physical space under the hood of the P so you can build a bigger motor that is still electrically balanced. In the 'typical' PJ, the J more or less becomes an additional 'tone' control for the P. It isn't like that in a J configuration as hte pickups are much more evenly balanced out put wise. Yes you can jimmy around with under / over winding, weaker or stronger magnets but - there are sonic tradeoffs doing so.

The most extreme example I know of is the G&L SB-2 where the balance is so tilted towards the split pickup that the bridge pickup is near to useless on it's own - yet you can hear very distinct changes in tone as you roll the bridge pickup in or out.

IMO - the PJ is a completely different animal from a JJ.

There are some sonic similarities between the neck pickup on a J and the split P. Both designs have the sing coil 'edge'. The P is so much stronger though that I don't consider them to be very close at all.

[SGD Lutherie]

Originally Posted by CapnSev

IMHO, a soloed neck pickup on a jazz does not sound like a P. Granted, they are in the same spot...

Actually they aren't really in the same spot. The P is closer to the bridge.

The main reason for them sounding different is that the P coils are wider and squatter, while the J is taller and thinner. The P also has more turns of wire on it.

The question really is if you have a Jazz bass, why have a P/J? P basses were the most popular electric bass for many years, more so than the Jazz. Some P players wanted to be able to get a brighter tone, so they added the Jazz pickup at the bridge. Some, like Lee Sklar, added a second P pickup.

The main issue with P/J basses is the P pickup is a bit hotter than the J, since they weren't made to go together.

[acebase62]

I have a J-J with 2 Seymour Duncan STK-J2 (Hot Stack).

I also have a P-J with Seymour Duncan SPB-1 (Vintage P) and STK-J2.

Each bass is V-V-T, with 500 K volume pots, TBX tone, same model J neck and P body.

The neck J and neck P naturally sound pretty different to me.

The SPB-1 and STK-J2 balance pretty well for a P-J, IMO.

On both basses, I use different pickup balances, depending on song.

[JimmyM]

i don't think they sound that different. not identical, but certainly not so far off that one couldn't be used for the other.

[pickles]

Neck pickup jazz is boomier, hollower, and less punchy than a P. I don't find them even remotely interchangeable.

[joeyl]

Originally Posted by pickles

Neck pickup jazz is boomier, hollower, and less punchy than a P. I don't find them even remotely interchangeable.

yep I feel the same way... Like David said, the P pickup has more turns and is closer to the bridge than the J neck pickup, and that gives it that midrange heavy growl, as compared to the neck J's more upright sounding tone

[darkstorm]

Never heard a jazz neck puo thats sound like a P pup in neck position. O a few that are closer to a P sound like the Rockfield J neck pup that was on my Traben attack. But it didnt have as much thump as a P. Had a more rounded bass end then most J;s, which made it a little more P sounding. But thats all. The rockfield J pup being my fave J though.

[chicago_mike]

To the OP

YES a jazz neck pup CAN sound like a P. I have played 60's and 70's P's and Jazzes from fender, sadowsky, etc...You can easily get that bland ( IMO ) P tone with a J neck soloed.

A p might be louder and "punchier"..this is subjective...but the math is only in the turns ratio and the overall design of the pickup..it doesnt mean the P pickup is some magical hoobajoo.

[BillMason]

I don't think this opinion is as well established as you may think, I own a J and a P and do not think they sound alike. Others disagree, usually players who mainly play a J bass. In any case no one except a bass player would ever tell the difference, so who really cares?

The difference is partly in pick up placement but also the fact that the P pickup is two coils, whereas each J pickup is single coil, and therefore wired differently, i.e. serial vs. parallel wiring.

The early 2000's American Standard Jazz basses had the S-1 switch which would switch the signal for you. P players back then could still tell a difference between a P bass and the J neck pickup played solo - I never had one of those Jazz basses so I can't comment personally, but I expect the difference in that case was mostly due to pickup placement.

EDIT: and to answer the OP original question: A P/J has a split coil and a single coil, versus two single coils in the J. The P/J bridge pickup will never be balanced by the neck pickup as it would be on a Jazz bass, as with the P/J the neck is a split coil.

[JimmyM]

i think you guys are on drugs if you don't think the j and p neck pickups don't sound similar. again, not always exact, but it's not nearly as far off as some of you are making it out to be. don't believe me? those of you with jazz and precision basses record them with just the neck pickup.

[Ryan L.]

I agree with Jimmy. I don't notice a huge difference between the two, when solo'd.

[acebase62]

The pickups on my JJ and PJ aren't stock, so that may play a part. If I play with some amp EQ, or turn the TBX tone all the way down, the J neck pickup and the P neck pickup will sound somewhat closer.

[pickles]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

i think you guys are on drugs if you don't think the j and p neck pickups don't sound similar. again, not always exact, but it's not nearly as far off as some of you are making it out to be. don't believe me? those of you with jazz and precision basses record them with just the neck pickup.

The J neck pickup doesn't do the critical things that makes me love a P. Solo your neck pickup, grab a pick, and palm mute "Money". Just doesn't do it for me at all. They are similar only to the extent that they're probably made of the same woods, have the same scale etc. The pickup design is completely different and its not in the same place. Particularly on D and G strings, but also on E and A.

I think the comment above may be right, J-bass guys think it sounds the same, P-bass guys think it sounds different, because they're not used to relying on those special P-bass properties.

[JimmyM]

man, now i wish i hadn't sold my jazz just so i could do a blind ab test with everyone