Why not stock MIA Fender Jazz pups?

[WoodyG3]

Just for fun, I thought I'd ask people why they replaced their MIA Fender stock Jazz pickups with something else. What did you find lacking in the MIA pups, and/or what improvement did you feel you made with the replacement pickups?

[anubis16]

The stock MIA pickups don't sound what I think of as the classic "jazz bass" tone. instead of having a strong hi-mid presence, they are focused in the low mids with very moderate hi-mids. They are voiced almost like bartolini single coils (strong lows and highs, strong low mids), which is not a bad sound, just not what I was looking for in a jazz bass.

[walterw]

the american standard pickups (all of them) are good, but not great. they use molded plastic bobbins, which put a layer of plastic between the coil wire and the magnets.

this is good for ease of production and durability (no coil wires shorting on magnets), but there is an argument that the gap affects tone in a negative way, due to the magnet just being farther away from the coil.

the rest of the bass is such a home run that it's almost a shame not to upgrade the pickups.

[darkstorm]

Never owned one, a few friends did back in the 70's. Most of them replaced the amer fender pups with dimarzios for better sound and output.

[walterw]

Originally Posted by darkstorm

Never owned one, a few friends did back in the 70's. Most of them replaced the amer fender pups with dimarzios for better sound and output.

not a fair comparison, those were very different basses.

i'd almost rather have a new american standard bass with the '70s pickups in it!

[Nedmundo]

I have a 2003 Am. Ser. four, and a 2008 Am. Std. five. I replaced the pickups almost entirely to go noiseless, because I like to favor the neck pickup and I despise single coil hum.

On the four, I hoped for an improvement in tone as well, and went for Lindy Fralin's Split-Jazz. They did improve the tone, with a little more grit and punch. The stock pickups were fine, but the upgrade was worth it. It's my number one bass largely due to these pickups.

The stock pickups on the five sounded amazing, so I didn't expect any improvement tone-wise. (Indeed, other than having more "air" in the highs, they sounded almost identical to the Fralins in my four.) I got Nordstrand's NJ5FS model, and they sound very good, but have less of a gritty vintage tone than the Fralins or stock Fender singles.

[king_biscuit]

Originally Posted by darkstorm

Never owned one, a few friends did back in the 70's. Most of them replaced the amer fender pups with dimarzios for better sound and output.

Dimarzio ceramic humbuckers absolutely do not sound better sound than 70s Fender gray bottoms. Like today, part swapping in the 70s was mostly a fashion statement -- i.e., the cool thing to do.

[Craig_S]

Originally Posted by Nedmundo

I replaced the pickups almost entirely to go noiseless, because I like to favor the neck pickup and I despise single coil hum.

I used to do the same thing, until I found out I could solve the problem by shielding the bass. Now, I LOVE the sound of my single coils.

Originally Posted by king_biscuit

Dimarzio ceramic humbuckers absolutely do not sound better sound than 70s Fender gray bottoms. Like today, part swapping in the 70s was mostly a fashion statement -- i.e., the cool thing to do.

I agree, completely. The DiMarzio's were just quieter (without shielding) and louder, as I remember it.

[anubis16]

Originally Posted by walterw

the american standard pickups (all of them) are good, but not great. they use molded plastic bobbins, which put a layer of plastic between the coil wire and the magnets.

this is good for ease of production and durability (no coil wires shorting on magnets), but there is an argument that the gap affects tone in a negative way, due to the magnet just being farther away from the coil.

Aren't just about all pickups constructed with a gap between the magnets and coil wire? Also, a layer of plastic shouldn't really effect a magnetic field...

I wouldn't say the stock pickups are bad, just not what a lot of people are looking for in a jazz. They have a more modern sound to them: strong high end, strong low mids, less high mids.

[king_biscuit]

A lot of people just like to mod there basses. I'll bet if the stock Fender pickups were Norstrands or Fralins and Fender didn't tell anyone, we would still have the usual suspects ripping them out and replacing them

[BigOldHarry]

Originally Posted by walterw

the american standard pickups (all of them) are good, but not great. they use molded plastic bobbins, which put a layer of plastic between the coil wire and the magnets.

this is good for ease of production and durability (no coil wires shorting on magnets), but there is an argument that the gap affects tone in a negative way, due to the magnet just being farther away from the coil.

the rest of the bass is such a home run that it's almost a shame not to upgrade the pickups.

As long as I've been playing, folks buy Fender basses new and replace the p'ups. I've done it with every fender i've bought new (but I have to say, I haven't bought one new since 1989 *and* it's pretty clear that the quality is better these days...

[SurferJoe46]

Originally Posted by anubis16

Aren't just about all pickups constructed with a gap between the magnets and coil wire? Also, a layer of plastic shouldn't really effect a magnetic field...

I wouldn't say the stock pickups are bad, just not what a lot of people are looking for in a jazz. They have a more modern sound to them: strong high end, strong low mids, less high mids.

I read an interesting article about Leo Fender and when the CBS penny pinchers came along, he had to change what they considered a too expensive process into one that was more cost effective.

What I remember reading was that Leo had a process where the wire that was wound into coils had a coating that was 'melt-able' by another solvent with some heat and that solvent was poured into the coils after they were all on the bobbins and placed over the pole pieces. That assured a really good potting to the whole coil at the point where it was most important - the pole pieces.

CBS thought he should just wind the coils and add a little of this solvent and just ship the coils. Leo's original process used some heat to accelerate the melting of the wire coating and that was nixed by CBS.

So much for good surface contact - and these are some of the p'ups that are so cherished today (from 1964-5 to about 1972, I believe) - they just were noisier in ways people kinda liken then to the 'vintage sound' which was really a bad sound according to Leo.

Now - the point is that if the coil is suspended by nothing but it's own volition or it has a meager contact point - it may or may not produce a sound that someone wants - built right or not.

If those poorly potted coils were in the years that they all got replaced for GP (general principals) and not because they were actually bad - but there was so much anecdotal evidence and old wive's tales that they HAD to be BAD - then I can see them filling the landfills, feet deep at that time. I never really notice them overflowing though.

Maybe just yanking p'ups out isn't a good thing unless there's something the player really wants - but then why did they buy a J-Bass in the firstest place if it's so bad sounding?

I dunnow. But I don't feel a great need nor desire to change out the ones I have in either of my Js.

[walterw]

Originally Posted by anubis16

Aren't just about all pickups constructed with a gap between the magnets and coil wire? Also, a layer of plastic shouldn't really effect a magnetic field...

nope, vintage-type fender pickups have the wire wound right onto the magnets (with at most a layer of tape separating them).

a layer of plastic of course won't affect a magnetic field, but the argument is that the increased distance from the coil wire to the magnet loses something. there's a big hoopla about old-style "paper interleaved transformers" being better for the same reason, because the winds are right next to each other with only the paper-thick gap in between.

[anubis16]

Originally Posted by SurferJoe46

If those poorly potted coils were in the years that they all got replaced for GP (general principals) and not because they were actually bad - but there was so much anecdotal evidence and old wive's tales that they HAD to be BAD - then I can see them filling the landfills, feet deep at that time. I never really notice them overflowing though.

Maybe just yanking p'ups out isn't a good thing unless there's something the player really wants - but then why did they buy a J-Bass in the firstest place if it's so bad sounding?

I dunnow. But I don't feel a great need nor desire to change out the ones I have in either of my Js.

I agree. I think a lot of people change pickups just to "upgrade" them. Now, I do think it is legitimate to buy a bass with pickups you don't like if you like everything else about the instrument. That being said, I've heard a ton of people say "I like the tone of my bass, but I want to upgrade the pickups."

I had my MIA for over a year before I changed out the pickups. I knew exactly what I wanted to gain from replacing the pickups and researched accordingly.

The whole deal about the extra space between the wire and the magnets may technically "degrade" the tone, but at some level it doesn't matter. There's so many variables that go into the tone of a pickup, it isn't fair to bash one because one component may be "inferior." As I said before, the stock pickups sounded good, they just weren't what I was looking for.

[RBrownBass]

Never cared specifically for single-coils enough to deal with any (read: any... shielding doesn't eliminate it completely, IME) hum, but I do love the Jazz ergonomics and I love narrow-aperture pups. So instead of MIA single-coils , I used SCNs. Love 'em.

[SurferJoe46]

I'm a little more parsimonious than that. I find that if I have to drop another $300-$400 into a bass to make it 'better' somehow, that I am buying the wrong bass.

I don't have problems when something dies or goes up in smoke - but yanking out some pickups without playing them for a while makes little/no sense to me just on the say-so of a bunch of other owners.

Not imputing motives to you - but I see what you mentioned 'the guitar is great- I love the tone - but now I'm gonna rip them out'. Somehow that makes very little sense to me - but again, I am not so inclined to mess with much if it works and has a nice tone in the vicinity of what I want.

I think too much ado is made over tone anyway - we are really playing for each other and the audience doesn't really care as long as they can feel the beat - which we provide in bushels --- if it's loud enough.

Some times I feel I could mail in some of my playing and that's all they'd need.

[Craig_S]

Originally Posted by Auriaprottu

(read: any... shielding doesn't eliminate it completely, IME) hum...

I have a Jazz here that breaks your rule. It doesn't even hum when I'm three feet from a CRT television. I get more hum from the hum canceling Sadowsky's in my other Jazz. I'm completely serious. Maybe this one's a freak? I've soloed both pickups at several gigs and no noise at all.

[SurferJoe46]

My Deluxe is silent in any position and my Passive isn't.

But the passive is only noisy when I have the p'ups faded one way or the other and when they're both Full ON - they are quiet.

[Craig_S]

Originally Posted by SurferJoe46

But the passive is only noisy when I have the p'ups faded one way or the other and when they're both Full ON - they are quiet.

That's completely normal. Mine is dead quiet. I kid you not.

[RBrownBass]

Originally Posted by Craig_S

I have a Jazz here that breaks your rule. It doesn't even hum when I'm three feet from a CRT television. I get more hum from the hum canceling Sadowsky's in my other Jazz. I'm completely serious. Maybe this one's a freak? I've soloed both pickups at several gigs and no noise at all.

I've heard and played some that were quieter than others, but never one like yours. Consider yourself fortunate. I'd try not to do anything to it at all other than changing the strings- you never know.