Won the Wal pickup on ebay!!!

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Unrepresented

Just suggesting that perhaps, you may want to refine your wait time vocabulary.

I'm not here to complain, I'm here to buy pickups. The sooner you allow me to do the latter, the less I can do the former.

Wow, though you might be right, your attitude is horrible. You think he wants to be putting off selling these? Wow.

[Oreomeister365]

Originally Posted by SGD Lutherie

a completely flat frequency response when the filter is wide open

I feel like the way a wals preamp cuts the frequency off (even at 10) is actually pretty important for their overall tone, but I can't really say for sure.

[Unrepresented]

Originally Posted by Angus

Wow, though you might be right, your attitude is horrible. You think he wants to be putting off selling these? Wow.

I'll answer that with a quote from another builder:

Originally Posted by Skelf

Start to finish 4 weeks in total.

Four weeks, start to finish. This thread's been filled with four years of promises with no update pics, no final dimensions, no sound samples, no dates met.

"Apples to oranges."

Maybe, but in terms of productivity, it clearly can be done, and with much shorter wait.

I want David to finish these. I want him to produce a product that we'll all love, and for him to earn a tidy income from it. From an outside observer's point, it certainly seems like he should have been able to do it by now.

[SGD Lutherie]

Originally Posted by Oreomeister365

I feel like the way a wals preamp cuts the frequency off (even at 10) is actually pretty important for their overall tone, but I can't really say for sure.

The new design is based off the real preamp. Notice he said:

"The system will function identically to the Wal onboard electronics"

It's just more hi-fi and quieter. But it will sound like the real thing.

[SGD Lutherie]

Originally Posted by Unrepresented

Four weeks, start to finish.

It's not really the same thing at all. What I'm doing is reverse engineering a pickup from an existing pickup. So I started by recreating every internal part. I'm sure that the ACG/Kent Armstrong pickups are not an exact copy. They are a multi coil pickup. While I'm using things like exact bobbin dimensions, Kent doesn't even use bobbins in his pickups. I'm sure they are great sounding pickups, but it's apples and oranges.

This thread's been filled with four years of promises with no update pics, no final dimensions, no sound samples, no dates met.

You will never see photos of any of my pickups that are not finished. I did post some photos of the original prototype bobbins.

Dimensions have been stated many times... they will be in 4 and 5 string Musicman style covers. That's a standard dimension. As soon as they are available for sale, they will have a measured drawing like all my other pickups do.

Sound samples also will be from final production pickups, not prototypes.

"Apples to oranges."

Yep.

Maybe, but in terms of productivity, it clearly can be done, and with much shorter wait.

Back when I started this, no one was making pickups like this, except for Wal, and some Bartolini models. But there weren't really any Wal inspired pickups. I could have had a pickup ready fairly quickly after I sourced all the parts. Some of the parts like the magnets had to be custom ordered.

As I started working on the prototypes, I decided to make improvements on how the pickup is constructed, and after a version versions ended up with what I have now.

I want David to finish these. I want him to produce a product that we'll all love, and for him to earn a tidy income from it. From an outside observer's point, it certainly seems like he should have been able to do it by now.

I'm now finishing up the final construction details on the pickup and as soon as my custom parts are here will be building the first production pickups. Then I'll see if they need any tweaks, but I don't think they will.

The preamp is going to be killer. So the whole experience will be better with the two. Just as you have to buy one of Alan's wonderful basses to get his pickups to get the full experience.

[Oreomeister365]

Originally Posted by SGD Lutherie

The new design is based off the real preamp. Notice he said:

"The system will function identically to the Wal onboard electronics"

It's just more hi-fi and quieter. But it will sound like the real thing.

Ah yeah, I guess I misread a bit, thanks.

[sandmangeck]

What is an estimate on cost for 1 and 2 pickup combos?

[isher1992]

Doesn't anyone remember the phrase, "Some things are worth waiting for?"

I would like to see how this turns out and I'm on the edge of my seat like the rest of you, but seriously, don't hassle him. I'm sure the wait is well worth it, to be sure it's a fine, quality product that you will be more than satisfied with.

By the way; it will be neat to see if you could implement similar designs in later pickups of other styles, such as P-bass pickups or J-bass pickups or other soapbars, as an OE Replacement for some basses. You would definitely have the market cornered on that--I can't think of anyone else that uses separate bobbins for each string. Well, except for Wal, but that's a given.

[Jared Lash]

Originally Posted by SGD Lutherie

The preamp is going to be killer. So the whole experience will be better with the two. Just as you have to buy one of Alan's wonderful basses to get his pickups to get the full experience.

Good to hear that things are in the final stages. And I think you're right that the pairing is where the magic is so selling the pickups and preamp as a set makes a lot of sense. Nice work David.

Originally Posted by SGD Lutherie

It's not really the same thing at all. What I'm doing is reverse engineering a pickup from an existing pickup. So I started by recreating every internal part. I'm sure that the ACG/Kent Armstrong pickups are not an exact copy. They are a multi coil pickup. While I'm using things like exact bobbin dimensions, Kent doesn't even use bobbins in his pickups. I'm sure they are great sounding pickups, but it's apples and oranges.

Just a couple minor clarifications. It's actually Kent's son Aaron that works with Alan to develop and produce the pickups for ACG basses. And the new pickups absolutely will have bobbins. I don't know how close they are to Wal pickups but given that I think the ACG/East pre is an improvement on the Wal pre I think the combo should be something special and a very cool option for bass players as will your offering.

Originally Posted by isher1992

By the way; it will be neat to see if you could implement similar designs in later pickups of other styles, such as P-bass pickups or J-bass pickups or other soapbars, as an OE Replacement for some basses. You would definitely have the market cornered on that--I can't think of anyone else that uses separate bobbins for each string. Well, except for Wal, but that's a given.

I'd be interested to hear David's take on this notion. My understanding was that the design of the Wal pickups necessitated the large housing and therefore couldn't be shrunk down into P or J shapes but I may be mistaken.

[isher1992]

Originally Posted by Jared Lash

Good to hear that things are in the final stages. And I think you're right that the pairing is where the magic is so selling the pickups andreamp as a set makes a lot of sense. Nice work David.



Just a couple minor clarifications. It's actually Kent's son Aaron that works with Alan to develop and produce the pickups for ACG basses. And the new pickups absolutely will have bobbins. I don't know how close they are to Wal pickups but given that I think the ACG/East pre is an improvement on the Wal pre I think the combo should be something special and a very cool flavor to have as will your offering.



I'd be interested to hear David's take on this notion. My understanding was that the design of the Wal pickups necessitated the large housing and therefore couldn't be shrunk down into P or J shapes but I may be mistaken.

They probably couldn't be wound very high, but also with the P and J pickups, there are two poles per 1 string, both of which sit on the edge of each string. I would think if instead, one larger bobbin sat beneath each string, it could possibly be done, because you would have 4 pole pieces instead of 8.

I don't think the same could be done for a single-coil older P pickup though.

I am no pro luthier--this is probably one of those ideas I could make total sense out of on paper, but not work in practice.

[isher1992]

Although, the one pole piece to replace the two probably couldn't be much bigger than 1 of the original 2. If that makes any sense.

It could probably be done in a P-bass pickup, but now that I look at the J-pickup, probably not. Unless you wanted to use wire gauge even thinner than 42 AWG, but 42 already feels like human hair! I'd be afraid using anything smaller, and pickup windings would be on a subatomic level.

[SGD Lutherie]

Originally Posted by Jared Lash

Just a couple minor clarifications. It's actually Kent's son Aaron that works with Alan to develop and produce the pickups for ACG basses.

OK, well it is "Kent Armstrong & Sons Pickups"

I don't know how Aaron makes them, but Kent doesn't use bobbins. He winds free standing coils.

My point though was this is closely modeled off the real thing.

[LukeFRC]

Originally Posted by Unrepresented

I'll answer that with a quote from another builder:

Four weeks, start to finish. This thread's been filled with four years of promises with no update pics, no final dimensions, no sound samples, no dates met.

"Apples to oranges."

Maybe, but in terms of productivity, it clearly can be done, and with much shorter wait.

I want David to finish these. I want him to produce a product that we'll all love, and for him to earn a tidy income from it. From an outside observer's point, it certainly seems like he should have been able to do it by now.

There's a fair difference between ACG going to a large scale OEM pickup maker and getting Aaron to make a prototype (and how long ago did Alan and Aaron start talking about it?) and SGD, who I think will be a smaller outfit designing, and building a whole production method, sourcing for a new product - ontop of the normal business.
(also thought... who makes Wal pickups? do they make enough basses to make them themselves? - most OEM work in the UK seems to go Aaron Armstrong's way... which means that he might already be tooled up to make a Wal like pickup.... )

My suggestion would be you go and order a bass from ACG, or shut up and wait for SGD

[MPU]

Originally Posted by isher1992

Although, the one pole piece to replace the two probably couldn't be much bigger than 1 of the original 2. If that makes any sense.

It could probably be done in a P-bass pickup, but now that I look at the J-pickup, probably not. Unless you wanted to use wire gauge even thinner than 42 AWG, but 42 already feels like human hair! I'd be afraid using anything smaller, and pickup windings would be on a subatomic level.

I've made four and five coil pickups with Wal-style bobbins. Work just great, don't have exact same lows as eight coil but still have quite similar sound.

[12bass]

Originally Posted by LukeFRC

My suggestion would be you go and order a bass from ACG, or shut up and wait for SGD

Or just buy one directly from Wal...

[Caca de Kick]

Originally Posted by isher1992

Doesn't anyone remember the phrase, "Some things are worth waiting for?"

In 4 years you could have just saved and bought an actual Wal.

[Hamlet7768]

Originally Posted by LukeFRC

also thought... who makes Wal pickups?

Wal does (EDIT: Or to be more accurate, Electric Wood Ltd.). That's why there aren't any real clones out there yet: they make them, and only make them for their basses; not as aftermarket parts.

[Tupac]

Originally Posted by Unrepresented

*emphasis mine.

Good lord, some of those "soon"s where from 2009! Not professional at all. You don't lead on your customers, you either say TBA or seal your lips until done. There really is no excuse for this, I'm outta this thread man. Maybe ACG would be better suited for my business.


Someone had to say it.

[SGD Lutherie]

Originally Posted by Tupac

Good lord, some of those "soon"s where from 2009! Not professional at all. You don't lead on your customers, you either say TBA or seal your lips until done. There really is no excuse for this, I'm outta this thread man. Maybe ACG would be better suited for my business.


Someone had to say it.

Well then I shouldn't say anything, but people keep asking!

Note that there was not steady work on the project for the last 4 years. This started out as something I am doing for the OP. I worked on it when I had the time. A lot of that time was sourcing parts and trying out ideas.

Also the project got held up when I though I was working on the pickup with someone else, nothing came of it, and that got the thing sidetracked.

Now if I had the pickup on my website I would be misleading customers. As it stands now it's not a product I offer, but a project in the works.

But now things have been more or less finalized and it's nearing completion. I'll be as happy as everyone else when it's available.

[isher1992]

Originally Posted by Caca de Kick

In 4 years you could have just saved and bought an actual Wal.

Not all of us can afford an entire Wal, though.

Plus, I don't plan on buying one, I'm just waiting to see if it can be replicated in basses of different woods/designs and have a similar sound.