1 step forward two steps back

jb6884 · #1 03-17-2006, 12:49 AM

Today, I bought the Mesa Walkabout 12" combo... because I had a gig tonight and pretty much had to get something - and this is the only thing I could get decent tone from. Well - when I got to the venue - the sound guy had a condenser mic and an instrument mic set up on a tripod and said he'd rather I go through that setup. It was FANTASTIC. I really never considered mic'ing the bass live because feedback has been such a major issue with my golden trinity. Hmm. I think I might be returning the Mesa tomorrow, and looking into something like this for a regular setup. We always have a PA, but I had just never tried things this way.... Thoughts?

stockbass · #2 03-17-2006, 04:02 AM

I often find PA to work better than bass combos with double bass (also with PU). PA generelly have lots of clean power and the speakers are often full range and uncoloured to suit most instruments. Just make sure you don't have an impedance missmatch - always use a good linebox/preamp

mchildree · #3 03-17-2006, 06:54 AM

That's my preferred method as well, but I rarely get to use it due to volume needs. My band likes to hear strong bass on stage (louder than I like it, even), and a mic/monitors/PA setup isn't always going to work out at higher volumes. Every venue is different, so I'd not make any rash judgements based on that one place...there may be times when you need an amp.

pat.p · #4 03-17-2006, 07:29 AM

Hi.
A friend of mine, Martin Weinert plays DB without an amp- straight to PA. He uses B-Band Statement and little AER monitor. It works very good.

jb6884 · #5 03-17-2006, 12:59 PM

I admit that stage volume was definitely an issue. I did return the Walkabout this morning... I am convinced that the sound I'm looking for is not going to be achieved by a 1200 dollar amp. The mic'd sound is what I'm after, however I realize that I am now going to be dealing with feedback issues. I think I'll still need to have an amp in my arsenal but rather than try to squeeze a slightly better tone out of my pickup by having a top quality amp - I'm going to spend the money on a good mic setup and a decent amp. Check this out:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...ess?sku=275674

This is the setup I ran through last night, and trust me, it is the sound we all dream of.

So now, on to the search for another amp at 1/2 the cost....

seamonkey · #6 03-18-2006, 12:29 AM

You might want to look at a pro sound cabinet.
For example try a JBL EON G2
You'll find the the high end pro sound tend to be flatter and less prone to feedback than trying to run a mic through an instrument amp. You'll find published specs for many pro sound cabinets but none for bass amps. You'll be able to ask your pro sound buddies what it best for your needs.

There also is some pretty good EQ gear out that can help to lower the feedback problems.

PB+J · #7 03-18-2006, 08:22 AM

I just bought, against my own better judgement, a schertler DYN-b. At a long rehearsal last night (drums, 2 guitars, sax) I ran the dyn-b into an avalon u5, into a focus SA, into an epifani 1x10. I was loving the sound all night long, much better than the realist I had been using into the same rig. Much, much better. So great to be rid of those peizo sounds. And though it will feedback much more readily than the realist, I could have gotten a lot louder without feedback last night.

The dyn-b doesn't sound as good as a good mic on a stand. It's pretty close, but it's missing the "air" you get with a freestanding mic. But so far it sounds worlds better than the realist, or anything else I've tried.

I don't know if the dyn-b is going to work out for me in the long run, but so far, wow. Everybody was commenting on the tone--it sounded so much more like a double bass and not an electric, so much more "acoustic," and as a result everything swung more.

bolo · #8 03-18-2006, 08:41 AM

Well I'm gonna pester you with questions brother - jus' like the Avalon U5 thread. Here 'tis.

Did you use one of the Schertler preamps or go straight into your U5?

Did you have any time to experiment w/ placing the DYN-B on different spots on the table, or did you just hit a sweet spot right off the bat?

I've got a house in Arlington that's for sale. Interested?

Your pal - Stevie B.

PB+J · #9 03-18-2006, 09:11 AM

Yikes! Look, I'm just a part time gigger, not any great expert. I'm happy to share info/experiences, but just don't bank on it like it was coming from a great player. Competant I am, great I ain't

The Dyn-B is going direct into the avalon. I got one of those low-z to high z impedence transformers, a Shure A95UF, to convert the XLR signal from the Dyn -b to the 1/4 input on the avalon. But no schertler preamp.

One interesting fact is that the Dyn-b sounded best when I had the Avalon completely flat--no high freq roll off, no eq curve. Sort of confirms what people say, that the Dyn-B likes a full range system.

I did have time to try some different positions. Slapped it on, below the bridge, it sounded good but a little woofy, moved it closer to the soundpost, sounded a little dull, put it right between the bridge feet and maybe two inches down towards the tailpiece, and BAM! Loved it. I may try moving it around some more, but can't see any real reason to.

The thing sounds great--like a mic, but a little more dry, zero piezo artifacts. I don't think it's as good as a mic on a stand, but it doesn't have the associated problems--set-up, feedback, bleed, phantom power requirements, sensitive to position, etc. I could not detect any bleed-through at all. Maybe I'll start a thread on it instead of highjacking this one

I already have a house in arlington I can barely afford!

Monte · #10 03-18-2006, 12:14 PM

Welcome to the club. I've been using one of these for a looong time and love it. It has somewhat of a learning curve, but I've gotten where I can basically go into any house PA with a god preamp (assuming the PA isn't one of those 100w $250 Guitar Center specials) and get a good consistent sound with no fuss.

It is greatly helped with some eq. If you can try it with a small parametric eq to notch the frequency around 80 hZ, it is even better.

bolo · #11 03-18-2006, 01:49 PM

Monte, in your opinion are the Schertler preamps required to get the most out of the DYN-B?

I am not knocking PB+J's Avalon at all. In fact, I really wanna try the U5 out for myself real soon.

Monte · #12 03-18-2006, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bolo

Monte, in your opinion are the Schertler preamps required to get the most out of the DYN-B?

I am not knocking PB+J's Avalon at all. In fact, I really wanna try the U5 out for myself real soon.

IMHO, the only thing special about the preamp is the notch filter that makes it easy to dial out the frequency that is a little honky on the Dyn B. Some systems exaggerate it a little more than others.

With the Bose PAS system, I'm not needing it because I can dial out it by adjusting the midrange, and the preset for Fishman on the Bose seems to already notch that out. Everything else I've tried really benefits from that control.

If you have a good EQ, it would probably be completely unnecessary.

When I first got the Dyn B, I didn't want to buy the Schertler preamp, so I tried it through numerous other things with varying success, but none was as easy.

The other thing I have that works good is a B******** cheapo deapo parametric (it got good reviews though). If the PA has an insert point, that works great too.

Monte

bolo · #13 03-19-2006, 07:04 AM

PB+J, I have genuinely enjoyed reading your posts (a lot recently it seems!) and learned a lot.

Don't worry about your "credentials" and all that. Hey, I'm a part-time professional musician too (for the last 26 years anyway). Maybe when I quit my daytime gig, then I'll consider myself a full-time musician. Hehe! Your experience and opinions are just as valuable to me as the next guy or gal.

If you want to share more info on the DYN-B as you use it more, definitely start another thread please. I would like to hear more about your experiences with it.

bolo · #14 03-19-2006, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jb6884

The mic'd sound is what I'm after, however I realize that I am now going to be dealing with feedback issues. I think I'll still need to have an amp in my arsenal but rather than try to squeeze a slightly better tone out of my pickup by having a top quality amp - I'm going to spend the money on a good mic setup and a decent amp. Check this out:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...ess?sku=275674

This is the setup I ran through last night, and trust me, it is the sound we all dream of.

jb6884 - Sorry for the hijacks. Those two mics look very cool indeed. But I am pretty sure that in the noisy, crowded gigs that I do a lot of the time, it wouldn't work unfortunately.

I guess a lot of it might depend on the kind of gigs you do. For example, one place I play, I am standing on the floor of the bar along with all the patrons. When it gets real crowded, people regularly bump into me when I’m playing, including the waitresses. (Sometimes the waitress bump ain’t so bad ...). Mics on a stand would definitely not work there.

Have you considered or tried the AMT mic? A lot of people really dig it for live use, and you might find it compares pretty well to the mic’d sound you heard the other night that you enjoyed so much.

jb6884 · #15 03-19-2006, 12:17 PM

I have considered the AMT, and have read a bunch of the threads on it. I know a lot of folks swear by it, and say it's got excellent feedback resistance and less bleed than other mics. I have no way to try it other than buying one. Hmm.. Anybody in St. Louis with an AMT ??

Actually most of my gigs are noisy bars too... the gig thursday was more of a quiet concert setting.

I attended a bluegrass festival this weekend, and attended a couple of shows - again stage setting. The bass rig was what looked like a fabricated mic mount that hooked into the F-hole, and had foam to rest against the bass with a large diaphram condensor mic atached. After one of the shows I was able to run up and talk to the bass player... Her usual rig is a BP-100 with the elements run under the feet of the bridge - one on each side to a GK150, then to PA. Anybody else running a BP 100 under the bridge feet? I guess this would differ from the the underwood because it's under both feet not just the E side

BrandonEssex · #16 04-01-2006, 01:06 AM

I spent a good deal of time trying to get the BP 100 to sound good. (Under the feet, in the wings, on the table, combinations of these, I even removed one paddle as an experiment) It's not really possible. The best setup I've seen with those is to glue the paddles to the bridge with superglue where they normally sit (on the top near the bearing edge). I went with a realist, which is fine if you don't listen too closely..... now I'm looking for a used DYN B, but I can't seem to find one,... is that a good sign?