ACME (vs LDS and EA)

**Adrian Cho** · #1 08-11-2005, 02:53 PM

I have been researching into the Acme B-1. I would love to hear one of these boxes but unfortunately there is no one that I can find that owns one anywhere in my parts. In fact at least on TalkBass, there is no one that owns a B-1 in Canada at all.

What I have read leads me to believe that they are amazingly hi-fi although there are also some who say the low-end is unnaturally overemphasised but if you EQ it then what you have is amazing. I understand they are real power hogs but with the Focus it's not really an issue.

IMO, the manufacturer's docs lead one to believe that the only way to get the low-end response they get in such a small box is with such inefficient speakers. Yet do the EA speakers (never heard one yet myself) not come close in terms of both clarity and low-end?

Certainly the price is good although the weight at 31 lbs (compared to say 24 lbs for an LDS 3-way 1x8) is getting up there. There is interestingly, a short discussion on the Acme site about why they do not go for 8" speakers.

I have read pretty much everything I can on TalkBass (and elsewhere) about the Acmes. I'd love to hear any other opinions.

**KJung** · #2 08-11-2005, 03:55 PM

Acme B 1 (110). I sold my Acme B1 (4 ohm) and original Clarus to an DB player in St. Louis. The sound is amazing. I don't think the B1 weighs 31 pounds... it seemed very light to me when I had it. I did not like that combination at all for standard electric, but for semi-acoustic electric fretless and for DB, it's a very light, very, very small nice sounding, warm organic head.... much smaller and lighter than the original EAVL110's, for example.

Two B1's at 8 ohms each with a Focus would be an amazing rig. The Focus would have plenty of power at 8ohms for 1 B1, and two of those little things and 600 watts into the combined 4ohm load from the Clarus would be enough to do virtually any gig on DB.

PS The EA cabs are also considered 'inefficient'... i.e., giving up some volume in order to pump out deeper lows from a small cab. From what I understand, the EA's do this through their transmition line design, and the Acme's through the use of a sub-woofer (long excursion) 10 and very low tuning of the cab... and including a mid driver to 'make up' for the lack of mid response in the sub-woofer.

**KJung** · #3 08-11-2005, 04:01 PM

B 1 weight... I do see that they list it as 31 pounds. If this makes sense... it's a very light 31 pounds (i.e., given it's very small size and balance, etc. it is a very portable cab, versus the old EAVL110's, for example)

Bob Gollihur · #4 08-11-2005, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJung

PS The EA cabs are also considered 'inefficient'... i.e., giving up some volume in order to pump out deeper lows from a small cab. From what I understand, the EA's do this through their transmition line design, and the Acme's through the use of a sub-woofer (long excursion) 10 and very low tuning of the cab... and including a mid driver to 'make up' for the lack of mid response in the sub-woofer.

That was somewhat true of the earlier VL-108 and VL-110 series cabs, which were in the 95 and 97db @ 1m, respectively. The VL-210B or 310 were more efficient at 100db and an amazing 106db @ 1m. By comparison, an Acme B1, B2, and B4 are 90, 93, and 96db @ 1m according to their site.

The current EA cabs, the CXL110 and 112, Wizzy, and NM-410 series are highly efficient at 103db @ 1m, and the NL210 scores a quite respectable 100db @1m.

**KJung** · #5 08-11-2005, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Gollihur

That was somewhat true of the earlier VL-108 and VL-110 series cabs, which were in the 95 and 97db @ 1m, respectively. The VL-210B or 310 were more efficient at 100db and an amazing 106db @ 1m. By comparison, an Acme B1, B2, and B4 are 90, 93, and 96db @ 1m according to their site.

The current EA cabs, the CXL110 and 112, Wizzy, and NM-410 series are highly efficient at 103db @ 1m, and the NL210 scores a quite respectable 100db @1m.

I agree the new EA line is much more efficient, but my CXL seemed to still want A LOT more watts per perceived DB than, for example, the Epifani line. That being said, for a very small rig that sounds very warm and natural, the AI/Acme110 combo sounds very good with acoustic instruments like an acoustic bass guitar or DB.

**Adrian Cho** · #6 08-11-2005, 09:19 PM

Furthermore I'm interested to know how people think a B-1 might do in combination with an LDS 3-way 1x8. Andy confirms the weight is 31 lbs BTW.

tombowlus · #7 08-12-2005, 08:58 AM

I own two Low B-1's (8 ohm), two LDS 3-way neo 1x8's - all of the above from macmrkt!

- and a boatload of EA cabs (one of which is from - you guessed it! - macmrkt!). The Low B-1 has the most low end of the bunch, and is just amazingly deep for such a small box. But, it seems to lack some midrange compared to EA and LDS, in my opinion. The EA cabs in general are notably more clear than the ACME's, but not quite as full sounding in the lowest notes (though I'd say equally as deep, due to the transmission line design). The LDS 1x8 has a very clear upper midrange and high end, and anything that surpasses EA in this regard is worth attention! A single LDS 1x8 neo, though, does not have the low end that even a single EA VL-108 puts out. With one of Don's "long-throw" woofers, though, it might be a different beast (but would probably lose some of the upper midrange clarity). I have not yet made up my mind as to whether or not the LDS cab is revealingly accurate across the upper mids and highs, or if it actually enhances these frequencies. At any rate, it is a very revealing tone, but it carries a lot of air and woodiness with it.

I think I can summarize (with a decent degree of accuracy) as follows. The Low B-1 is the super low end marvel of the bunch. The LDS 3-way neo 1x8 is the clarity king. The EA VL-108 or VL-110 are somewhere in the middle.

Tom.

**Adrian Cho** · #8 08-12-2005, 09:06 AM

Thanks for that post Tom.

So all this means that potentially, the B-1 plus the LDS 3-way 1x8 together might be a great killer combination.

It has also made me wonder what a 4-way LDS cab might be like (something I've wondered about many times already).

tombowlus · #9 08-12-2005, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrian Cho

So all this means that potentially, the B-1 plus the LDS 3-way 1x8 together might be a great killer combination.

I agree that this might be a great combination. I'll try and check this out sometime soon.

Tom.

jmain · #10 08-12-2005, 09:29 AM

Tom,

The LDS are custom so the efficiency rating isn't listed on the website for the 1x8 and will vary for various configurations. But in your best ballpark estimate, what would you say that the 1x8 cabinet you have is closer to either in comparision to the others or in dbs?

**Adrian Cho** · #11 08-12-2005, 09:29 AM

Now that I'm getting into this whole cabs thing, I can begin to see why Tombowlus has so many of them. My theory is that he loves something about each of them that he just can't bear to part with any of them.

There are so many tempting things. The other cab that gets me drooling is the AccuGroove Tri110L. At only 33 lbs (it is listed at 36 lbs on the website but I had a dealer weigh one for me), it's about the same weight as the B-1. I can imagine however that with the 6" mid and 10" woofer not to mention the sealed inner cabinets, that it brings something new to the mix.

Gotta avoid getting sucked into that one cab does all thing... Although I'm not sure why - weight is the only real reason not to as far as I can tell.

**Adrian Cho** · #12 08-12-2005, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmain

Tom,

The LDS are custom so the efficiency rating isn't listed on the website for the 1x8 and will vary for various configurations. But in your best ballpark estimate, what would you say that the 1x8 cabinet you have is closer to either in comparision to the others or in dbs?

Yes I was wondering about this myself in light of the low efficiency of the Acme cabs and the idea of pairing an LDS with an Acme.

tombowlus · #13 08-12-2005, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrian Cho

Now that I'm getting into this whole cabs thing, I can begin to see why Tombowlus has so many of them. My theory is that he loves something about each of them that he just can't bear to part with any of them.

Bingo!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrian Cho

There are so many tempting things. The other cab that gets me drooling is the AccuGroove Tri110L. At only 33 lbs (it is listed at 36 lbs on the website but I had a dealer weigh one for me), it's about the same weight as the B-1. I can imagine however that with the 6" mid and 10" woofer not to mention the sealed inner cabinets, that it brings something new to the mix.

Actually, I have an Accugroove Tri 110, too! It is a fairly aggressive sounding cab, and to my ears, it has the most "bark" of any of the Accugroove cabs. I need to toss it into the mix, though and do some serious A/B/C/D...

Take care, Tom.

jmain · #14 08-12-2005, 09:42 AM

I too can see why Tom has such a large array of gear. Tom, I just caught the "Bass PA" thread last night over on the BG side. I would've posted, but was left speechless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrian Cho

Yes I was wondering about this myself in light of the low efficiency of the Acme cabs and the idea of pairing an LDS with an Acme.

I was thinking of a "frankenrig" with LDS 1x8, B-1, and VL110; or any combination thereof.

tombowlus · #15 08-12-2005, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmain

Tom,

The LDS are custom so the efficiency rating isn't listed on the website for the 1x8 and will vary for various configurations. But in your best ballpark estimate, what would you say that the 1x8 cabinet you have is closer to either in comparision to the others or in dbs?

The 1x8's seem very efficient to me, and moreso than ACME or EA.

Tom.

**Adrian Cho** · #16 08-12-2005, 10:12 AM

I suspect the Tri110 is not for me because by all accounts it is indeed a little bit more aggressive sounding. It sounds like it would great if you really needed a lot of volume which is not the case for me (at least not 99% of the time). The other thing is that its rating of 300W at 8 ohms doesn't leave much in reserve when used with a Focus. Finally, the cost is high (although probably quite a good deal). For the price of the Tri110 you can you get an LDS 3-way 1x8 and a B-1 and still have change left over.

The VL-110 I ruled out simply due to the weight. There were a couple on eBay last week going for a song and I was tempted...

tombowlus · #17 08-12-2005, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrian Cho

I suspect the Tri110 is not for me because by all accounts it is indeed a little bit more aggressive sounding. It sounds like it would great if you really needed a lot of volume which is not the case for me (at least not 99% of the time). The other thing is that its rating of 300W at 8 ohms with the doesn't leave much in reserve when used with a Focus. Finally, the cost is high (although probably quite a good deal). For the price of the Tri110 can you get an LDS 3-way 1x8 and a B-1 and still have change left over.

The VL-110 I ruled out simply due to the weight. There were a couple on eBay last week going for a song and I was tempted...

You know that you are making quite a compelling argument for the LDS 3-way 1x8 with a Low B-1, don't you?

**Adrian Cho** · #18 08-12-2005, 10:24 AM

Yes I am but this separate cabs thing is all new to me so I'm looking for some affirmation from an acknowledged expert

Ric Vice · #19 08-12-2005, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrian Cho

The VL-110 I ruled out simply due to the weight. There were a couple on eBay last week going for a song and I was tempted...

Adrian,
I have a VL-110 and they run around 37 lbs,, and actually feel
heavier than that, so I would have to agree with you on this one.

Ric

PS I would advise checking out that dual cabinet setup before you
actually purchase it if you can. Remember, that when you connect the two
cabinets, the power from the Focus goes up.

**Adrian Cho** · #20 08-12-2005, 10:49 AM

In terms of power, I have a Focus 2 and my intention is to get two 8 ohm cabs. If these were the B-1 (rated at 175W RMS) and the LDS 3-way 1x8 (I believe good for about 250W), it should leave a good reserve with the Focus having 600W at 4 ohms.

In terms of tone, unfortunately I can't try out either a B-1 or an LDS 3-way 1x8 without purchasing them. Fortunately they both have return options so that's good.

I only wish the B-1 had something other than the carpet finish. I hate carpet covered cabs. I've ordered my LDS with the road-spray which will add a lot of time to delivery but should be worth it. The Pub was finished in a similar finish and it looked really professional.

I think I will order my Acme with the optional pole-mount and I believe Don does offer the same option. I have a pole stand from when I had the Pub and it's a nice thing to use especially (I would imagine) for two cabinets.