Acoustic Image Contra 310

LoeBase · #1 02-16-2007, 04:57 PM

Hello all,

It's Loe here again. I've been reading reviews on the acoustic image contra. All the reviews have people saying how loud their contra is and how they can drive a 18 piece big band. Yet, I can bearly drive a trio. My contra is rated at 200 watts internally at 4 ohms. I struggle to be heard. Rick just sent me a triangle lift to see if that helps. My teacher has played my bass acoustically and in his opinion it is a loud enough bass. I've been trying to make sure I do the basics like playing closest to the end of the finger board and digging in with the sides of my fingers and trying to use my elbow for more power, but so far to no avail. I can't afford new equipment right now.

I desperately seek all advice.

greitzer · #2 02-16-2007, 05:12 PM

What pickup are you using?

tornadobass · #3 02-17-2007, 07:59 AM

Good point! If you're using a pickup, digging in and playing hard shouldn't be part of the equation...that's the whole point of using an amp and pickup.

I've recently started using a Clarus (series 3) with an Ampeg Portabass 210...a bigger cab than the Contro, but not that efficient. Using an RS II pickup last weekend, it easily kept up with piano and electric guitar, playing standards at a noisy reception. I had to turn down the bass and boost the mids to cut through all the room noise, but the rig wasn't turned up much at all.

A couple of things to check. One is that the preamp section is set up correctly. The tone knobs, for example, are flat when they're straight up rather than full left. I've seen a couple of posts that called flat full left, and in reality, that's just giving the whole preamp a -15db cut to start with.

The AI manual suggests starting with the tone controls flat, setting the master at noon and then turning up the input gain until it reaches the right volume. If your pickup isn't fit right, it might be producing a thin, low output signal. Most bridge wing pickups should be snug but still movable with a strong push.

Part of being heard is the EQ you use, too. Try using a bit more mids and less big bottom.

I hope these ideas help.

Reuben · #4 02-17-2007, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tornadobass

Good point! If you're using a pickup, digging in and playing hard shouldn't be part of the equation...that's the whole point of using an amp and pickup.

Digging in and playing hard produces colors that are unavailable when playing softer, just like on any other instrument.

The point of music and musical equipment, is to convey the full range of expression (I hope) and playing hard is about more than being heard.

I hope.

Reuben · #5 02-17-2007, 09:48 AM

Oh, and I forgot to say that having once owned the AI contra myself, I had the same trouble. I tried everything from expensive preamps to tipping the amp back and the only thing that worked for me was selling it off. The guy who bought it from me absolutely loves it, so what the heck do I know?

fingers · #6 02-17-2007, 09:54 AM

Sounds like an impedance matching problem. A preamp will help boost the signal. There are lots of good ones out there. I use a Sansamp amp and am very happy with it. I do no eq or anything, just boost and the addition of the fatness that the Sansamp adds. Some guys love em, some guys hate em.

greitzer · #7 02-17-2007, 11:25 AM

Loebase -- so, a bit more info will help us help you. In addition to letting us know what pickup you are using, can you also let us know if you are getting any sound at all out of the amp? Are you getting literally nothing, or you're getting some sound but just not enough?

tornadobass · #8 02-17-2007, 11:55 AM

Just curious...have you tried the amp with an electric bass just to see if you're getting sound out of it that way?

That would help clarify whether there's a concern with the amp or pickup.

LoeBase · #9 02-17-2007, 04:55 PM

Hi guys,

I'm using a underwood pickup. I used to have a realist, but the volume was even less. I do get sound, but not enough. I can barely be heard in a trio setting with a rather tasteful drummer. I've played my electric through it as well, but I not much difference I'm afraid. I thought about getting a clarus head and a 112 or 210 cab. But first, I've got to get someone to purchase my current AI contra.

Jaromir · #10 02-18-2007, 03:37 AM

Get an used GK MB150 combo and you will be fine for small group (trio or quartet) situation. According to my experience, this would be cheaper and more effective solution. If it's good for Charlie Haden or Dave Holland, should be O.K. for us too...

greitzer · #11 02-18-2007, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoeBase

Hi guys,

I'm using a underwood pickup. I used to have a realist, but the volume was even less. I do get sound, but not enough. I can barely be heard in a trio setting with a rather tasteful drummer. I've played my electric through it as well, but I not much difference I'm afraid. I thought about getting a clarus head and a 112 or 210 cab. But first, I've got to get someone to purchase my current AI contra.

Loebase, here are a few possibilities that occur to me. You may have already eliminated some of these, but just in case not, I'll mention them.

1) Faulty instrument cable. Have you tried a different cable?

2) Underwood not installed optimally. It should fit snugly, but not real tightly, in the bridge wing-slots. Not too loose, not too tight, each of the two elements needs to make full contact, as flat and even as you can get it with the bridge wood on either side of it. Have you tried moving the elements around in the wing slots with the amp turned on, to see if that makes a difference? If one is too loose, you can use a cardboard shim to snug it up.

3) You didn't mention this in your post, but if feedback is a problem and this is forcing you to keep the volume down, then amp placement may also be an issue. If it is, position yourself and the amp in such a way that the amp can't directly "see" the pickup. Get your body and the bass in between pickup and amp.

4) The amp is the problem. This would of course be the most expensive to fix.

Sorry if you already know that 1-3 aren't the problem. Just thought I would mention them, just in case.

Good luck.

onemother · #12 03-28-2007, 10:25 PM

Just got my Contra tonight and have been putting it thru its paces. Am using a 20 yr old Underwood PUP on a German Mathieu Toma bass, with Obligatos on it. I placed the amp on a wooden floor in my dining room.

Sound? Wonderful! Sounds like me, acoustically. No boominess, no feedback, very clean. But I'm very concerned about the volume. I messed around with the various levels, EQ, and positioning w/ and w/o the positioning spokes on the bottom, and I would have to say, at worst, the volume level was very *subtle* - I had to tap the pickup on the bridge to doublecheck I was being amplified. At best, I would say I was twice as loud, maybe three times louder, than I am unamplified, and I have a reasonably loud bass sound. (BTW, this was with all levels on full tilt). There was definitely no rattling of the house as I was playing - maybe the occasional vibration of a glass on a nearby shelf.

Is this in keeping with other people's experience of the volume with the Contra? Is this the tradeoff of purity of sound for volume that people allude to?

bolo · #13 03-29-2007, 08:24 AM

Sounds like something is amiss to me.

A Contra on a wood floor in a dining room (i.e. not on a gig) should be putting out enough low end to as you say make the house rattle. Even the older Series I like I have.

Like tornader outlined above, can you try another bass through it, like an electric? I would guess there's something wrong with the amp, pickup or pickup's fit, or maybe even just the cable 'tween the two.

**bass dan** · #14 03-29-2007, 11:50 AM

just used a contra II last night for the first time. i was very impressed. i used it with a electric bass[dont have my upright yet] and a sadowsky outboard preamp d.i. it was plenty loud enough. i ran the direct out to a p.a. system but didnt need it. at one point the mandolin player accidently turned up the channel i was in and wow it was more than i would ever need. we had a mandolin player, a fiddle player that was run into the p.a. and a acoustic guitar player and vocals, not to mention about 60 people chattering away. the bass stood out very nicely, i usually would run my bass direct into the p.a. without a amp. the contra made a world of difference. I will have to say the contra on its own, with out the preamp was quite a bit quieter. not sure what the sadowsky will sound like with a upright, but it did not seem to color the sound of the electic, just boost the sound, and maybe fatten up the notes. overall this is a great amp.

Bob Branstetter · #15 03-29-2007, 02:26 PM

Anyone who has been playing with a front firing speaker behind them for a long time will need a bit of adjustment time when using an AI Combo amp. It will never sound as loud to your ears since the speaker is not aimed at your ears. Get a little distance between you and the amp and you may find it louder than up close. I used a Series I Contra for many years (before getting my Series III Coda) with big bands and except for huge rooms and outdoor, the band and audience never had any problem hearing me.

drurb · #16 03-29-2007, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Branstetter

Anyone who has been playing with a front firing speaker behind them for a long time will need a bit of adjustment time when using an AI Combo amp. It will never sound as loud to your ears since the speaker is not aimed at your ears. Get a little distance between you and the amp and you may find it louder than up close. I used a Series I Contra for many years (before getting my Series III Coda) with big bands and except for huge rooms and outdoor, the band and audience never had any problem hearing me.

I agree wholeheartedly that some adjustment is needed when switching. The difference in loudness, however, is not because the design uses a down-firing woofer. Given the radiation pattern of low-frequencies, this would actually make little difference. I suspect that differences in perceived loudness, if and when they exist, may result from the fact that the rig is quite short. When you stand near and above it you, as a player, are well off-axis of the front-firing mid and tweeter drivers. Thus, gaining a bit of distance actually can help, just as you suggest.

Bob Branstetter · #17 03-29-2007, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drurb

The difference in loudness, however, is not because the design uses a down-firing woofer. Given the radiation pattern of low-frequencies, this would actually make little difference. I suspect that differences in perceived loudness, if and when they exist, may result from the fact that the rig is quite short. When you stand near and above it you, as a player, are well off-axis of the front-firing mid and tweeter drivers. Thus, gaining a bit of distance actually can help, just as you suggest.

That may be true in theory, but could you say with any certainty that if I were to take the Contra and turn it upside down and pointed it toward my ears that the perceived volume would not be greater?

drurb · #18 03-29-2007, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Branstetter

That may be true in theory, but could you say with any certainty that if I were to take the Contra and turn it upside down and pointed it toward my ears that the perceived volume would not be greater?

As a matter of fact, if you turned it upside down, you would lose the coupling and it would not sound nearly as loud, especially given my understanding concerning the frequencies above which the woofer output crosses into the mid and tweeter. The story would be different if you turned it upside down and put your ear right next to it. That would constitute near-field propagation and, well, I'll leave that one there...

Given the coupling of the woofer to the floor, the relative energy in the spectrum being handled by each driver, the height of the cabinet, and the position of a standing bass player, I believe I made a valid statement-- but hey, give it a try!

jsbarber · #19 03-29-2007, 10:21 PM

(i) Try your bass w/ pickup through another amp and see if it is "quiet" or normal, for that amp.

(ii) Try another instrument through your amp and see if it is louder than your own.

Try to divide and conquer.

Instrument cable is also a possible culprit, as mentioned above.

Jim

As an afterthought - could the problem be with the bridge? What if you have a poor bridge, and the wings don't vibrate properly? I don't know if this makes any sense but...

onemother · #20 03-30-2007, 06:20 AM

It was a faulty patch chord, although I had recently bought it. House is rattling now. For my purposes, I think I have more than enough dbs for 95% gigs that I would ever play. In fact, the output of the amp makes me now more appreciative and interested in the granular, sometimes obscure discussions of the high pass and notch filters. Can't wait to try the amp out in the real world.

Thanks for the suggestions from various folks.