Another one of my goofy ideas

moles · #1 02-23-2007, 04:03 PM

...So I still need a pickup for my new DB - Will probably wind up picking up a Fishman next week or so - and it needs a pre-amp also, right? So here's what I'm wondering...
Rather than spending money on yet another piece of gear (you should see my basement) I'm thinking about scavenging the onboard pre- from a Yamaha RBX which has been a regular old parts depot since the neck twisted on me a couple of years ago.
I really liked the sound of the electronics on that bass - I can't imagine anyone would be able to comment on whether or not *soundwise* it would be a good match for the Fishman, but is there a difference as far as how it alters the impedence from the piezo? Also not sure how I'd mount it to the bass (having the bass and treble controls handy would be ideal) but I'll figure that all out when I get there.
Thoughts?
- Miles

forgot to mention - the electronics in the Yammie were passive pu's, active pre.

Bob Gollihur · #2 02-23-2007, 04:10 PM

The only issue that may upset your plans is that the Yamaha preamp is probably designed to deal with the lower input impedance of magnetic pickups, while piezo pickups are looking for 1 megohm or higher. So it may give you preamplification and tonal control, but it probably won't provide the usually quite audible benefits of a proper impedance match.

But what the heck, it doesn't cost anything but time to audition it off the instrument.

moles · #3 02-23-2007, 04:16 PM

That was fast

Exactly the kind of info I was looking for, thanks Bob. Maybe I'll try it out anyway, but who knows.
-Miles

fdeck · #4 02-23-2007, 09:18 PM

If you are into tinkering, you could always add my single-JFET preamp at the front end of the Yamaha preamp. That would give you the impedance match you need.

Another thing, if you end up looking closely at the Yammy preamp, see what IC's are used. If they are typical TL072 etc., then the necessary input impedance may actually be supportable with minimal modifications.

mje · #5 02-24-2007, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fdeck

If you are into tinkering, you could always add my single-JFET preamp at the front end of the Yamaha preamp. That would give you the impedance match you need....

I added fdeck's basic single-FET preamp to my Fender Precision A/E, between the piezo and the preamp. Worked very well. I'd say give it a shot.

Rickske · #6 02-24-2007, 11:16 AM

Do you want the bp100 fishman or the full circle? I got the
bp100 recommended by my local store as "the only thing" Turns out to be real bad.. after joining here i found out i probably need a full cirlcle or yet another.. i use it with a fishman pro eq bass pre-amp. I u want i could sell u my bp100 <PM me> But do the reading here first.

bolo · #7 02-24-2007, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rickske

I got the bp100 recommended by my local store as "the only thing"

Hm, well I think maybe your local store gave you a bum steer. I see you’re in the Netherlands, and moles is in Winnipeg. So I don’t know how accessible some of these other DB pickups might be for you, perhaps purchasing via the internet, but ...

There's the Fishman Full Circle, Gage Realist, Upton Rev Solo, K&K Bass Max, K&K Double Big Twin, Underwood, Shadow, Schertler DYN-B, Schertler STAT-B, Planet Wing, B-Band, Vektor ...

Here's a place to get some basic info on some of them.

And this list is even more extensive, although I think some of these may be harder to find information on.

moles · #8 02-24-2007, 12:32 PM

Yeah, after a check on Fishman's site, I guess it'd be the bp-100. I can see the designs are quite a bit different, but how is the sound different? Really I'd like to bring the bass down and, seeing as how it looks like not much more than a 5 minute install, actually try it out there to see whats suitable. I asked them if they could get K&K in (either the bassmax or the rockabilly one) and its available here - But its about twice as much, and I'm not 100% sure I'm keeping this bass anyway....
So its really that bad?

Ric Vice · #9 02-24-2007, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moles

Yeah, after a check on Fishman's site, I guess it'd be the bp-100. I can see the designs are quite a bit different, but how is the sound different? Really I'd like to bring the bass down and, seeing as how it looks like not much more than a 5 minute install, actually try it out there to see whats suitable. I asked them if they could get K&K in (either the bassmax or the rockabilly one) and its available here - But its about twice as much, and I'm not 100% sure I'm keeping this bass anyway....
So its really that bad?

Unless you are getting the BP-100 really cheap then I'd avoid it like the plague. It's really a nasal sounding pickup, even with the preamp they designed for it. I've owned the pickup and still have the preamp. Those clamps mute the bridge and that also effects the sound. If you can afford the Full Circle you will be much happier with the sound. The other option is the Revolution Solo. It's very reasonable, but personally I'd have a luthier mount it for you since that process is a little tricky.

Ric

bolo · #10 02-24-2007, 01:34 PM

The only thing I would add to that is ... If I can install a Rev Solo, anyone can do it.

Granted, I've done it more than once now in an attempt to get the optimal fit and tone from it, and I get it set up and sounding better each time I think.

Ric Vice · #11 02-24-2007, 01:56 PM

Steve,
That's great, but you're talking to a guy who couldn't even
make a octagonal lazy suzan in seventh grade woodshop (it stuck about half way around) and my pinewood derby experiences were only good because I had a father who could build anything. So I guess it kind of depends if you were paying attention when you're dad asked you if you'd like to paint the trim on the house.

Ric

bolo · #12 02-24-2007, 03:07 PM

You are too funny man ...

Trust me, I suck at anything remotely like what a handyman can do. Well, I did make a plastic napkin holder in 7th grade shop class that my Mom (bless her heart) used for years.

I would say ... If the surface planes of the wing and the leg of your bridge are REALLY narrow, or sharply angled and not even close to being parallel where the pickup is gonna slide in, then yeah, it can be a much more complicated process with the filing and sanding.

And truth be told, I have fit a Rev Solo on the same bridge 4 times. I bought two - and had them both reconditioned. Plus eroy sent me a prototype to try out when they were developing the RS II. Like I said, each time I went through the process, I made marginal improvements in the fit.

'Cuz I suck at that kind of thing. I suck so bad I said it twice.

Ric Vice · #13 02-24-2007, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bolo

You are too funny man ...

Trust me, I suck at anything remotely like what a handyman can do. Well, I did make plastic napkin holder in 7th grade shop class that my Mom (bless her heart) used for years.

I'Cuz I suck at that kind of thing. I suck so bad I said it twice.

Steve,
I also rember the time when I thought it would be really cool to take the screws out of my Ampeg B-15N, so I could see the schematic underneath. That would have been fine, except that I kinda forgot to put them back and proceeded to "flip the top," putting a rather distinct gouge in the back of my Mirecourt Bass. So, as a general rule, I avoid anything that requires sharp surfaces and woodworking skills. That little divit in the back of my bass is there to remind me of this.

Moles,
Sorry for hijacking the thread. Personally I'd go with a Revolution Solo II or the Fishman Full Circle and this is from a guy who uses a
Realist.

Ric

bolo · #14 02-24-2007, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ric Vice

Moles,
Sorry for hijacking the thread. Personally I'd go with a Revolution Solo II or the Fishman Full Circle and this is from a guy who uses a
Realist.

Neither of these pickups needs a preamp either, as a general guideline that is. Looks like the high impedance input on your Ashdown MAG 600 is 3.9 megohms, so I would think impedance matching between either of these two pickups and your amp would not be an issue.

But don’t hold me to it. ‘Cuz I suck at most things remotely technical or mechanical. I just hang out here in the hopes of learning something by osmosis.

bolo · #15 02-25-2007, 06:41 AM

On the BP-100, found a coupla things. Not trying to bash it, just sharing what I have read:

What pick-up and other equipment to use?

[ Edit: If you decide to get one, this next thread has some decent info on how to get it installed for optimum performance. ]

How do I keep a BP100 on?

Of course, if I looked long enough, I could probably find posts that say people really dig this p/u too.

Your results could vary of course ...

mje · #16 02-26-2007, 04:27 PM

The BP 100 does tend to have a peaky midrange, but it can be tamed a lot by supergluing it to the bridge instead of using the clips. Still, it's kind of expensive for what it delivers.

I think the K&K Bassmax, properly fit to a bridge, is a very underestimated pickup.

moles · #17 02-28-2007, 11:31 AM

All the recommendations you're giving me for the K&K stuff seems to go along with other info I've gotten. I'm still wondering a bit about just how midrangey is midrangey. Keeping in mind I'm coming from an EB background, would the difference between "midrangey" and not midrangey be similar to the differenence between a J or a soapbar?

Also, maybe some more background info would help - I'd be (at first) using it through my Ashdown rig, so I'm not exactly going through a high-fidelity, transparent rig to begin with. I'm expecting to be doing some eq'ing, and will need to be able to cut through a fairly loud band also. We're basically a loud, twangy country/rock band. One guitar/vocals; one drummer from hell; and a fiddle player thats gone electric. Seriously, he has a bigger space station at his feet than I ever did...Soooooo anyway, taking all that into account - still a no for the BP-100? Because if thats the case, I would think I should just head straight to the K&K Rockabilly deal that Bob has on his site, or maybe the King Doublebass pu system which is the same sort of idea I gather, just to get some more cut.

Bob Gollihur · #18 02-28-2007, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moles

All the recommendations you're giving me for the K&K stuff seems to go along with other info I've gotten. I'm still wondering a bit about just how midrangey is midrangey. Keeping in mind I'm coming from an EB background, would the difference between "midrangey" and not midrangey be similar to the differenence between a J or a soapbar?

Also, maybe some more background info would help - I'd be (at first) using it through my Ashdown rig, so I'm not exactly going through a high-fidelity, transparent rig to begin with. I'm expecting to be doing some eq'ing, and will need to be able to cut through a fairly loud band also. We're basically a loud, twangy country/rock band. One guitar/vocals; one drummer from hell; and a fiddle player thats gone electric. Seriously, he has a bigger space station at his feet than I ever did...Soooooo anyway, taking all that into account - still a no for the BP-100? Because if thats the case, I would think I should just head straight to the K&K Rockabilly deal that Bob has on his site, or maybe the King Doublebass pu system which is the same sort of idea I gather, just to get some more cut.

If you are playing styles other than strictly rockabilly I'd suggest the Bass Master Pro over the Bass Master Rockabilly system. It's a more versatile system, allowing you to get direct string slap sounds from the four transducer array (Double Big Twin) across the top of the bridge rather than just the slap impact from a fingerboard transducer. The advantage is that you can blend some DBT with the bridge wing-mounted Bass Max, adding clarity and string "edge" to the straight bass sound from the Bass Max.