Best Large Condenser for under $500

[Jason Sypher]

Seems we would have had this discussion but I couldn't find it. What is the best mic for under $500. There are a lot to choose from and there are some that seemed to come up a lot. Let's go by ebay prices instead of retail since that's where I'll probably get it and it's usually quite a bit cheaper. I need something to record my bass at home in solo or small acoustic ensembles. I've got a macbook pro and a MOTU traveller. I'm leaning towards something by Audio Technica but the Studio Projects and Rode's get a lot of good press as well. What do you think?

[Big Willy!]

So many new mics are popping up now that the Chinese are manufacturing capsules of quality. Often, however, you'll find that the supporting electronics inside many of these new mics are substandard & unreliable. Most of them sound pretty crappy.

MXL & Rode both make rugged, good sounding affordable large diaphragm mics. Rode's actually been around for a long time. I have an NT-1 that's still working great.

If you can find an old CAD E-100, I love those on bass.
The wide flat body deceptively houses a small (under 1") diaphragm, but that mic can take a lot of SPL & it will reproduce more bottom end than most other mics with larger diaphragms.

Good luck!

[M Ramsey]

Originally Posted by Jason Sypher

Seems we would have had this discussion but I couldn't find it. What is the best mic for under $500. There are a lot to choose from and there are some that seemed to come up a lot. Let's go by ebay prices instead of retail since that's where I'll probably get it and it's usually quite a bit cheaper. I need something to record my bass at home in solo or small acoustic ensembles. I've got a macbook pro and a MOTU traveller. I'm leaning towards something by Audio Technica but the Studio Projects and Rode's get a lot of good press as well. What do you think?

Jason, what I'm about to say will probably not inform you of anthing at all. With recording and live situations, manipiulation of the position of the microphone you are using is of the utmost importance in making it sound as it should.

No one certain microphone should be considered as "the" microphone to record bass, viloin, guitar, etc., etc. they all have their own frequency curves and have "sweet spots" in relation to that.

My son has had very good results with a bunch of MXL V57M microphones. They look similar to the Neuman U-87 in size and shape and have a ghastly greenish-icky paint on them. But he's used them to record everything related to the bluegrass world along with drums, trumpets, sax in a jazz setting. Now, again, this is in a recording situation. This mic can be ordered with a shockmount for about $80-$90 with shipping. The best price I've found is via Zzounds on the internet.

At that price you could buy several (after trying one) for what you'd spend on 1-2 more expensive microphones. That way you wouldn't have to worry about it too much if you wanted to haul it around to practices, gigs, etc., etc.

Other opinions expected and respected,

[quee]

I would recomend the Neumann TLM 103.
I know this is probably going to be over 500 but you might get a second hand one for not a lot more.
I got a great sound recording with this mic and it works well with vocals and other instruments too.
You are paying for the name, but they make great mics and that also means that it will hold it's value well.
If you by a cheaper mic, you may end up spending just as much again on another mic in a few years time and you wouldn't have such a great bass sound on all those recordings you'll have made in the time in between!

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I'm a big fan of the M-Audio Solaris. I have some sound samples of mine here if you want to check out the sound they get. Mine's been rock solid so far.

[MingusAmongUs]

I think any of the mics mentioned will work pretty well but I'll throw my own experience into the mix and recommend 2.

Not strictly for bass, but considered for a long time to be THE bluegrass mic, is the classic AT-4* series, particularly the 4030. Great all around mic for acoustic instruments, with an optional low-frequency (80Hz) HPF and a 10dB cut, if there's a lot of background noise in the room. Can be found on eBay for +/- $200.

Another popular option for a stereo pair recording acoustic instruments is the Shure KSM series. Haven't used one myself but have heard great results from them. Ebay usually has the KSM32 for +/- $400.

[bkbirge]

The AT4033 is a good choice but you may not like the bleed. You may get lucky and find an AT4060 tube mic for around that price, or an oktava MKL2500 but again, for what you are describing maybe too sensitive and too wide of a pattern.

I think for your situation if I was you I'd opt for a used Sennheiser 441. Great mics, tight hypercardioid pattern, works great for bass, kick, snare, and sax IME. It is possibly the best dynamic mic ever made and can be had used for $500 and under quite often. The Sennheiser 421 is great too but not in the same class to my tastes, others may argue this point but I've never really liked it much for bass or the other 'typical' uses it gets such as toms and kick. If you can find an AKG D12E (not D112) then you might like that too, though it will give a darker flavor.

[deaf pea]

MY $0.02

IMNSHO, a large diaphram condenser works for vocals . . .

for ALL other instruments or sound sources I prefer either a small diaphram condenser, a dynamic moving-coil or a dynamic ribbon mic, depending on the result I'm looking for . . .

For example, a nylon-string "classical" guitar tends to sound "boxey" (too much 500 Hz) with the large diaphram condenser . . . but with a quality small diaphram condenser it can sound really good (depending on the player, of course)

The AKG 451 (OR 460 series), Shure SM81, Audix SCX-1 and Neumann KM 185 are good choices for a small diaphram condenser at various price points . . . The MXL small diaphram condenser and the budget line from Shure (PG 81) are OK if you don't have a lot to spend.

Another thing . . . buy mics (preferably NEW) in pairs . . . stereo is (almost) always much nicer than mono!

For quality un-hyped (flat frequency response) dynamic mics, the best ones are the Sennheiser 441, Shure SM-7, EV RE20 (or PL20) . . .

As for ribbon mics, the good ones are WAY outa' your price range

YMMV, but all this is based on my 37 years professional recording experience, both as a musician and as a multi-Grammy winning audio engineer . . .

[David Kaczorowski]

I don't know what they cost these days, or even if they're still made, but the AKG C4000b is a great mic.

[gnergaard]

I love mine and have been looking for another.
Great for mic-ing an upright- I prefer it to a U87 easily for upright.
Seems that this mic gets along well with modern digital recording. The frequency response is rated out to only 16,000hz, but the color is great and makes other large diaprahms seem harsh in comparison. Handles great SPLs and is good from everything from Brass, Horns, bass and I've been told is a great choice for drum overheads. Very versatile!

[bolo]

Here's a few more threads along the same lines in case you haven't seem 'em yet.

Upright Mic Suggestions

Mics for recording shootout-- cut n' paste for posterity

what would be your choice of a condenser microphone under 200usd?

[manjar]

For around that money you could get two 4030s (a little more to get them new, maybe less to get them used). That is a killer pair of mics, though of course there is a lot you can do with one of them.

[Sealove]

The M-Audio Sputnik is an incredible large diaphragm tube mic that works beautifully on string bass. Lists for $699. I got mine (2 of them) for under $500 each, mail order from Full Compass. They really do sound amazing. Check out these reviews:

http://www.audiomidi.com/aboutus/rev...es_sputnik.cfm
http://emusician.com/mics/emusic_maudio_7/
http://remixmag.com/recording_hardwa...audio_sputnik/

[robgrow]

Originally Posted by deaf pea

MY $0.02

IMNSHO, a large diaphram condenser works for vocals . . .

for ALL other instruments or sound sources I prefer either a small diaphram condenser, a dynamic moving-coil or a dynamic ribbon mic, depending on the result I'm looking for . . .

For example, a nylon-string "classical" guitar tends to sound "boxey" (too much 500 Hz) with the large diaphram condenser . . . but with a quality small diaphram condenser it can sound really good (depending on the player, of course)

The AKG 451 (OR 460 series), Shure SM81, Audix SCX-1 and Neumann KM 185 are good choices for a small diaphram condenser at various price points . . . The MXL small diaphram condenser and the budget line from Shure (PG 81) are OK if you don't have a lot to spend.

Another thing . . . buy mics (preferably NEW) in pairs . . . stereo is (almost) always much nicer than mono!

For quality un-hyped (flat frequency response) dynamic mics, the best ones are the Sennheiser 441, Shure SM-7, EV RE20 (or PL20) . . .

As for ribbon mics, the good ones are WAY outa' your price range

YMMV, but all this is based on my 37 years professional recording experience, both as a musician and as a multi-Grammy winning audio engineer . . .

Some really good advice here. An original AKG C-451E or EB with a CK-1 cardioid capsule can really sound great for DB. It may be possible to find one used for around $500. Well worth it IMO. A Shure SM-7 is a great mic in general and can sound fabulous with the right mic preamp. I also agree that it is very cool to record acoustic instruments like the double bass in stereo.

[Jason Sypher]

So, you think for an all acoustic situation on a big double bass a small condenser is better? I have recorded with small condensers from time to time. I think the last recording I did was with two odd looking ribbon mics. Why do so many go for a large diaphragm for bass in the studio?
I keep thinking, "what does Edgar Meyer do?".

[ToneRanger]

Just a comment on the cheap Chinese condensors: a friend who sells pro audio gear for a living says many of them sound great when new but have a limited life span, especially if used on loud intruments. One pair of cheap condensors compared very nicely with Neumans until they' did a tour as drum overheads and became very dull.

My 20 year old AKG C451s still sound great.

[MingusAmongUs]

Originally Posted by Jason Sypher

So, you think for an all acoustic situation on a big double bass a small condenser is better? I have recorded with small condensers from time to time. I think the last recording I did was with two odd looking ribbon mics. Why do so many go for a large diaphragm for bass in the studio?
I keep thinking, "what does Edgar Meyer do?".

FWIW, I just happen to have read a magazine article (Recording, Sept 07) in which Edgar is interviewed about his latest studio recording, the one where he plays with himself. Err, so to speak. Here's the hardware lineup they describe:

Neumann KM 184 cardioid
DPA 4006 Omni (previously sold as B&K)
both placed about 4.5 feet from instrument, down low, "low enough that the bow noise isn't screaming into them"
both small diaphragm
also, a Gordon preamp

says there's a pair of each but reading it I get the impression they're not necessarily using all 4 at once. it's a little vague for our tastes here

[Jason Hollar]

Unless you're recording in an awesome room, placing a mic 4 feet from the bass may not produce a very good sound.

For the money, the Audio Technica 40 series are killer. I used three AT 4050's in my project studio for years -- on everything including bass.

I like the large mic about 6-12" away from the bottom side f hole. In addition, I've been using a small mic just off the fingerboard for the high end.

I also have an older AT Pro 35x clip-on which sounds pretty good for live demos.

[MingusAmongUs]

Originally Posted by Jason Hollar

Unless you're recording in an awesome room, placing a mic 4 feet from the bass may not produce a very good sound.

For the money, the Audio Technica 40 series are killer. I used three AT 4050's in my project studio for years -- on everything including bass.

Yep, it's a huge room built especially for recording.. not for everyone. Ditto on the AT 40s

[deaf pea]

Originally Posted by robgrow

Some really good advice here...I also agree that it is very cool to record acoustic instruments like the double bass in stereo.

Thanks for the "vote of confidence". Although I DID say "stereo is (almost) always much nicer than mono!", there ARE other ways to use 2 (or more) mics on the same instrument besides stereo. The engineer needs to be careful, however, checking for phase cancellations WHENEVER using more than 1 mic in ANY recording!

Originally Posted by Jason Sypher

So, you think for an all acoustic situation on a big double bass a small condenser is better?

Yes, most definitely . . . FWIW, the "flatest frequency response" instrumentation mics (used for acoustic measurements) are ALL small diaphram omnidirectional condensers!

Note: if there are various instruments playing at the same time ( as opposed to a recording of a single, solo instrument), I would probably go for a dynamic mic, closer in . . .

Originally Posted by Jason Sypher

Why do so many go for a large diaphragm for bass in the studio?

"so many" WHO? contrabassists? or engineers? or what?
I guess the answer to your question is "because of ignorance relating to the principles of physics and, more specificly, acoustics".

Originally Posted by Jason Sypher

I keep thinking, "what does Edgar Meyer do?".

Originally Posted by MingusAmongUs

FWIW, I just happen to have read a magazine article (Recording, Sept 07) in which Edgar is interviewed about his latest studio recording...Here's the hardware lineup they describe: Neumann KM 184 cardioid DPA 4006 Omni (previously sold as B&K) both placed about 4.5 feet from instrument, down low, "low enough that the bow noise isn't screaming into them"
both small diaphragm...

Note that the DPA 4006 Omni started out as an expensive instrumentation mic that later became popular for "audiophile" recordings . . .