Best Pick up for Arco

[bdengler]

I'm looking for a pickup that will work well for arco. To make a long story short, I play in a large church, we tested various mike configurations (as kindly suggested by some of you) and found that I simply was not clear or produced enough of a signal to cut through the din. Our group is getting bigger, with 4 horns, 2 violins, 1 viola, 1 cello, 4 woodwinds, 2 guitars (on pickups), percussion, piano (on pickup). Today, we simply tried my Fishburn pickups, and the sound folks said I had a clear, strong signal. Apprently, they're not interested in the subtle tones of a bowed upright, but a sold bass sound. So, I'm looking for the a standard pickup that works the best for arco under my situation. No Schertler transducer; I have one and the sound folks said it sounded awful. Your thoughts would be appreciated (e.g., Full Circle, Realist, etc.).

Regards, Brian

[Marcus Johnson]

The Realist was a great arco pup for me... but it died because it isn't made for the real world. Just fell apart. If you're playing it in one place repeatedly, you might like it. It's pretty dark, so you might get that "solid bass sound" you are looking for.

[reedo35]

I have been using the Full Circle with an AI Coda combo with great results. I did try the Realist, but it sounded too dark on my bass.

[dkziemann]

I think the best bet is probably a realist, it's $200 bucks and does a solid combination of arco and pizz.

[Silversorcerer]

I've found that most pick-ups sound pretty ragged arco. I use a K&K bassmax and it can be very edgy on some basses and pretty good on others. One thing that helps is just a touch of a nice chorus effect. A bit of reverb on the channel helps also.

[Chasarms]

The best arco sound I have gotten was with a Pick Up The World pickup. It is an "under the foot" style PU in the ilk of the realist. It just isn't as dark.

They are not cheap though.

I have also heard a full circle arco. It was pretty good. Our church bass has a K&K on it that fits in the wing. It is less than desirable.

My current PU is a Solo I. I absolutely loath the way that PU sounds arco.

[Marcus Johnson]

Originally Posted by Chasarms

The best arco sound I have gotten was with a Pick Up The World pickup.

You might be the only bassist I've known who used that one. I tried the guitar model on a flattop, it was really nice.

[bribass]

I've tried many pu's (except the Full Circle) on my 3 different basses over the years and the best for arco was always the Realist. For piz it sounds better on some basses more than others, but for arco I've always found it was the best and most mic like on any bass. I think this is true because of the under the foot position. Gets more of the top vibration and not just the bridge.

I've always been curious about the Pick Up The World pu for bass. It goes in that same spot. How is it for piz?

I've had the same three Realists for years w/o any falling apart or malfuction. One since 1999 on my German DB, one since 2001 on my Eminence and one since 2003 on my Prescott DB. Just make sure it is properly installed w/ good bridge position etc. and don't futz with it too much, going easy on the wire that leads to the pu.

BG

[Bob Branstetter]

I currently have a full circle on my bass (to augment an AMT S25B mic), but for the best arco I would have to say Realist hands down.

I had (3) Pick up the world pickups and I liked the sound it got for pizz and to a lesser degree arco. It could probably be tweaked for better arco if you wanted to spend the time finding the right place to stick the smaller of the two sensor units. The problem is that it is just too fragile for the real world. They were very nice about replacing them, but after 3 of them I gave up on it and went to the full circle.

[conte2music]

The realist has a nice arco tone, however I always find that playing arco is tough because it's much louder than when playing pizz. The realist would do the trick, however coinsider a volume pedal, or be prepared to play super light when using the bow.

I liked the full circle as well, and found the volumes to be much closer between arco/pizz. I prefer the pizz tone of the full circle, and the arco tone is second only to the realist. I sold the instrument that had my full circle, however I'm going to be getting another soon.

[bdengler]

I appreciate everyone's suggestions. They are helpful. Although the PUs may not be ideal for arco, they seems to work in my church. We played our Christmas Midnight Mass last night with 5 horns, 3 woodwinds, 3 violins, 1 viola, a cello, me, 2 guitars (using pizo pickups going into the board), three percussion, keyboard, harp, etc. I used the Fishman BP-100 and the sound folks (and my family) said they "heard me" and I had a good signal. I played at an earlier mass with a small group (just guitar, piano, one violin and me) and I could hear how raspy the pickups were for arco. Howver, perhaps at the later mass with a larger group, given the volume and number of amplified instruments, the pickups probably helped me hold my own.

I've learned a little trick with pizo pickups and arco. The bowing needs to be aggressive (get the strings to speak as quickly as possible) and exaggerate the vibrato.

Happy Holidays, Brian

[EJ_Dad]

I'm using a Full Circle w/Fishman Bass Pro. But I also put on my Tourte mute to take the raspiness out of the sound. I saw the bass player in Beatlegrass do it at the fair a few years ago for amplified arco solos.
It gives a sound that is blends well with the rest of the church orchestra.

[bdengler]

Originally Posted by EJ_Dad

I'm using a Full Circle w/Fishman Bass Pro. But I also put on my Tourte mute to take the raspiness out of the sound. I saw the bass player in Beatlegrass do it at the fair a few years ago for amplified arco solos.
It gives a sound that is blends well with the rest of the church orchestra.

What a great idea. Thanks for the suggestion.

Brian

[winston]

If you like the pizz tone of your Fishman, you might want to try a footswitchable EQ (like the Boss GE7B) or preamp (like a SansAmp Bass Driver/DI) to get a different tone/volume for arco. I use a SansAmp for this purpose, and IMO it beats mixing pickups and gives you more control over the sound.

[bdengler]

Originally Posted by winston

If you like the pizz tone of your Fishman, you might want to try a footswitchable EQ (like the Boss GE7B) or preamp (like a SansAmp Bass Driver/DI) to get a different tone/volume for arco. I use a SansAmp for this purpose, and IMO it beats mixing pickups and gives you more control over the sound.

Another great idea. I have used a Fishman pre-amp in the past to boost the bass and reduce the treble when I bowed, and then adjust the EQ when I did pizz. Thanks!

Brian

[neal davis]

what shertler do you have, I found experementing with the placement of the dynb helped alot. I got a very great sound on a recording I just did where they lost the mic'ed signal of the bass and just used the pickup, I couldn't tell and didn't know till someone told me.

[rdwhit]

Realist all the way. I've used them on ply, hybrid, and fully carved basses with the same great results. You don't get the grit with the bow with them. I've had no difference in volume arco vs pizz. I've had the same one for many years with no problem. No pre amp or volume pedals needed. Just plug it in & go. They are boomy, so turn the low end down a little on the amp/p.a. It's hard for the sound man to screw up Your sound with one. No disrespect for the various pre amp & pedal ideas. I use an old 2 band eq fishman pre amp sometimes when I'm going strait into the p.a. I just like to keep it simple when possible.

[bdengler]

Originally Posted by neal davis

what shertler do you have, I found experementing with the placement of the dynb helped alot. I got a very great sound on a recording I just did where they lost the mic'ed signal of the bass and just used the pickup, I couldn't tell and didn't know till someone told me.

I have the Schertler DYN-B. Expensive! The sound folks complained about it; said it sounded awful. I was not using the Schertler pre-amp that came with it at the time; I was using a tube mike pre-amp at the time (the wire for the 9 volt battery broke in my Schertler pre-amp).

Brian

[Monte]

Originally Posted by bdengler

I have the Schertler DYN-B. Expensive! The sound folks complained about it; said it sounded awful. I was not using the Schertler pre-amp that came with it at the time; I was using a tube mike pre-amp at the time (the wire for the 9 volt battery broke in my Schertler pre-amp).

Brian

While it has its faults, I would say it is more the sound folks than the Schertler. I have used my Schertler Dyn B into many house systems (Probably at least 30 churches) and have gotten great sound.

The key is either using the Schertler Preamp or having a soundman who knows parametric EQ. The Dyn B has a pretty well known frequency hump that if not evened out will sound pretty bad. It is not hard to eq out though. The PreA II from Schertler does this with a twist all the way to the right of the resonance knob.

I've never heard a pickup sound as good as the Schertler with the bow. Before discarding this, take it back in to the sound guys and have them try to eq it out. Do a forum search and I think the offending frequency is listed.

Not as user friendly as the preamp, but a cheap work around if your sound guys know what they are doing. The sound guy at my church adores it.

[Monte]

Originally Posted by bdengler

I have the Schertler DYN-B. Expensive! The sound folks complained about it; said it sounded awful. I was not using the Schertler pre-amp that came with it at the time; I was using a tube mike pre-amp at the time (the wire for the 9 volt battery broke in my Schertler pre-amp).

Brian

What pre amp from Schertler? I don't know a battery powered Schertler pre amp.