Clip-on Mics

Jake deVilliers · #1 07-22-2008, 02:25 PM

I was wondering if anybody was using any of the clip-ons that are available.
At the Sooke Bluegrass Festival the soundman simply clipped an Audio-Technica ATM Pro 35 onto the edge of the treble F-hole of Maiken's Kay and boom, instant fat bass sound!

A-T also makes the ATM350 which appears to be an upscale version of the Pro 35, and Sennheiser offers the E608 (dynamic) and E908 (condenser).

The PA guy at the store is going to bring in both an E608 and an ATM350 for us to try out but I was hoping that somebody here could shed some light.

Thanks, Jake

bolo · #2 07-22-2008, 03:31 PM

Jake, if you search this forum for clip-on or some of those model names you'll probably get some good info. Here's a thread that may help if you haven't seen it yet. Seems the original ATM 35 may have been discontinued, but maybe they're available used.

M Ramsey · #3 07-23-2008, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake deVilliers

I was wondering if anybody was using any of the clip-ons that are available.
At the Sooke Bluegrass Festival the soundman simply clipped an Audio-Technica ATM Pro 35 onto the edge of the treble F-hole of Maiken's Kay and boom, instant fat bass sound!

A-T also makes the ATM350 which appears to be an upscale version of the Pro 35, and Sennheiser offers the E608 (dynamic) and E908 (condenser).

The PA guy at the store is going to bring in both an E608 and an ATM350 for us to try out but I was hoping that somebody here could shed some light.

Thanks, Jake

Jake it seems I've seen you posting stuff in the bluegrass section quite frequently so I'm assuming...you know what that CAN mean.

I've got the ATM 35 that I bought a couple years back for about $120-$130, which has a small power supply (w/battery) which has a very small XLR from the mic cable and then a standard XLR which goes to the house (DI, etc., etc.). It's a lesser version of the ATM350 you have mentioned.

I use this quite frequently. I got tired of hauling an amp and I play bluegrass, where the note is sounded and then damped when the mandolin chop comes in. More of a tuned thump than a singing, bowed sound.

Placing the mic near the F hole on the treble side or clipped to the center of the tailpiece (away from the plosives of the direct f hole placement) has given me very good results. When doing the f hole placement I mention, I clip to the F hole (at the top) and point the mic towards the center of the top, to avoid the boominess.

I watched Marshall Wilborn a few weeks back at the festival here in town. He uses an Acoustic Image amp on stage to monitor himself and has a small condenser between the D & A strings, pointing toward the center of the bridge feet. Marshall sounded awesome.

The ATM350 is usually available online for about $250, probably with shipping included. Do you a google search and see what you come up with.

The older I get, the less I want to haul around. I'm already trying to play a piece of furniture.

RShew · #4 07-23-2008, 12:27 PM

I use a Shure Beta 98 hc. I have it stuck in an ATM 35 clamp actually. I use this all the time and have been very happy ith it. I run it through an AI head blended with a pickup. Now that I alos have an H clamp, I am starting to test other mics as well but the Shure has been very solid for me. Never had a single feed back issue.

Jake deVilliers · #5 07-23-2008, 01:51 PM

Good feedback guys.

The A-T Pro 35 is still available for just a little more than you paid Mike. It has a cut off frequency range; 50 - 15,000 vs the ATM350 at 40 - 20,000. It might make the mic more bass-friendly that way, although I suppose the highs can be controlled with the EQ....

Pro 35: http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wi...6d6/index.html

ATM350: http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wi...978/index.html

Anybody qualified to comment on the different impedance values? They're given as 50 ohms for the Pro 35 and 250 ohms for the ATM350. Seems like a big difference to me, but what do I know from ohms?

Thanks, Jake

Jake deVilliers · #6 07-23-2008, 02:03 PM

Thanks for the link Steve - I can't believe I missed that thread!

Must be getting old.

Jake deVilliers · #7 08-02-2008, 12:12 AM

I picked up the Sennheiser E608 and the ATM350 at Long & McQuade in Vancouver yesterday for evaluation. They are similarly packaged but very different mics.

We tried them through our Behringer Eurorack 2442FX Pro board and headphones on Maiken's 1950 Kay and my favourite Roma Hybrid.

The E608 is a dynamic and needs a lot of gain. The sound is no better than the SM57 in the afterlengths that we used to use. The vibrating top makes a somewhat electricky sound when the close-miked.

Its probably better than burdening the afterlengths with a Shure microphone, but I can't really really recommend it.

The ATM350 sounds great when clipped on to the bridge between the G and D. Pointed slightly toward the E side f-hole it reads some air to go with the sound of the top and the strings. It sounds very natural with just a slight reduction on the 80 Hz EQ knob: big and fat but stringy as well - it sounds like the bass but without the reflections of the room.

I'm hoping to get an ATM Pro35 to compare as well and I'm looking forward to our gig on the 17th when we'll be able to try them through a PA outdoors.

Roger Davis · #8 08-15-2008, 10:53 AM

Anyone have difficulty mounting a clip-on? I've just got an ATM 350 and didn't like clipping it to an f hole; it wasn't too stable and chipped the finish after a few goes. I have made a light aluminium clamp that hangs down below the bridge arch and has a 15mm tab that the mic clips to. That way the mic points at the body centreline under the bottom of the fingerboard about 150mm from the bridge. It can be swung off axis by approx 50mm either way but that doesn't seem to change the sound much. I've only tried the mic through my backline so far so the volume has to be kept very (too) low but I'm looking forward to putting it through a PA when the venue has one.

If anyone is interested I'll try and attach a photo. I could also send one by post if anyone is really really interested.

bolo · #9 08-15-2008, 10:55 AM

Sure Roger. Pics please. The whole gooseneck and mic placement option thing is what makes my AMT and H-clamp so appealing to me. Even a small change in placement or angle of the mic can make a big difference in sound in my case.

Jake deVilliers · #10 08-15-2008, 10:59 AM

Roger, did you try it clipped onto the bridge as described above? So far that's the sweet spot on the Kay.

Roger Davis · #11 08-15-2008, 01:25 PM

Jake

If I read you correctly, the mic clips between the G&D on top of the bridge and then arches back down over the strings. Am I right, and if so how much above the strings? 25mm?

Roger Davis · #12 08-15-2008, 01:57 PM

Bolo

Have tried to attach pics but the 'size' is too big to post on Talkbass and I can't resize it. If you are still interested you may care to PM me with your email address and I'm sure I'll be able to attach it then.

Jake deVilliers · #13 08-15-2008, 08:50 PM

Roger, the mic comes up toward the fingerboard in a gentle arc and points through the strings toward the E side F-hole.

It reads some of the f-hole's woof, some of the fingerboard's pop and some of the top's vibrations. It doesn't appear to hear the strings (which are very close to it), maybe because its so near to the still point for the strings ie the bridge.

We'll find out Sunday if the position works on stage or not but that's where it sounds best in the music room. I just wish the ATM Pro35 had arrived so we could A/B them....

Roger Davis · #14 08-17-2008, 05:00 AM

Jake, thanks for clarifying that. So it boils down to whether close miking (below the bridge) or, er, not so close miking (above the bridge) will get the optimum results. My opportunities for figuring this out will be limited over the next few weeks because, as I've posted elsewhere, I have to rely on backline most of the time. So please keep us all posted on your deliberations. I suppose one way to find the sweet spot without inducing howls of feedback would be to use headphones.

Jake deVilliers · #15 08-18-2008, 12:33 PM

Well, we used the ATM350 at a live outdoor gig yesterday with our acoustic bluegrass band 'Story House'. Unfortunately, the ATM Pro35 did not arrive in time for a direct comparison test.

We were running the ATM350 and our Apex 135 and 185 condensers through a Behringer Xenyx 2442FX board, two Mackie SRM450v2 speakers and an SWA1501 subwoofer. There was a pretty stiff headwind blowing right into the front of our tent.

The mic sounded very natural when clipped to the top of the bridge but needed to be very hot. This led to it picking up a lot of wind noise, so we clipped it into the lower part of the treble f-hole. It was pointed at the top but still obliquely exposed to the edge of the f-hole. That gave us a huge bass sound that wasn't quite as articulate as the bridge positioning but it was a very good live sound. There was never any sign of feedback from the 350 and we were loud enough that people 150 feet away across the field were clapping after some numbers. Mostly the ones my wife was singing!

Our son Milo was twisting knobs for us and he liked both of the positions very much in terms of the tone. As he grew up listening to his Mom play that bass, his opinion carries a lot of weight around here!

It sounded much better than using a 57 in the afterlengths, our former favourite method of amplification.

We'll try it again in our home studio and hope to be able to compare it to the Pro35 as well but as of right now, the ATM350 is the winner.

Mike Arnopol · #16 08-20-2008, 02:31 AM

The ATM 350 is the replacement for the ATM 35. The Pro 35 is cheaper and doesn't sound as good.

Jake deVilliers · #17 08-20-2008, 09:12 AM

Can you expand Mike? Have you used both these mics in live sound reinforcement applications? Still seeking pros and cons before plunking down hard-earned cash....

juuzek · #18 08-20-2008, 09:53 AM

I use the AT Pro35 and find it suitable for bluegrass. I clip it onto the adjuster wheel and have the gooseneck pointing down between the bridge foot and f hole. I get plenty of gain, and can adjust the mic towards or away from the F hole for more wood or more boom in the sound.
The drawback is that I don't have a bypass wired between the mic and the board, and you can hear me tuning between songs.

Brian K · #19 09-05-2008, 02:24 PM

I use an ATM 35, wrap the cable around the g string a couple times, clip the clip to the bridge adjuster, and aim it at the point where the g side of the bridge touches the top on the outside of the bridge, 45 degree angle to the top horizontally, perpendicular to the top vertically. Does that make sense?

Anytime there's no drums or loud amps or monitors, it works fantastic, and it's all I've used for years. In louder situations I just use a pickup and an amp.

I've been thinking of adding a dynamic to the pickup for amped gigs, but don't know which one to try first. Maybe the Heil?

bolo · #20 09-05-2008, 03:07 PM

Brian, yeah that makes sense about the way you position the mic (I think

). Thanks for sharing.

Here is a thread that mentions a number of different dynamic mics. I use a Beyer M 88 TG. I got the idea to give the Beyer a try from larry in that thread I just mentioned. I'd like to try the Heil PR40 at some point too. Jeremy Allen and jrlynch have said excellent things about it.

One thing that seems to crop up again and again in my mind as I read these posts, but doesn't seem to get mentioned explicitly all that often - Running a mic into a PA v. running a mic into a "bass" amp set up behind you on stage are different in some ways. I typically do the latter, despite its challenges (read feedback), blended with a pickup most of the time. Running the mic signal to the PA would be great ... except I don't always have a PA on my gigs.