Confused about pickups, what might work better for me?

a.green.martian · #1 02-09-2008, 02:49 PM

Hi, I'm mostly just lurk on this side of the board, but I'm starting to use the DB more and more, and I was wondering about pickups and mics.
I play an Upton Laminate with TI dominants on it; If that makes a difference. I play in an indie-ish rock band. I've lately been making the switch whenever I can for the song, and the band and I have noticed some problems with the amplified sound.
Right now I've got a Revolution Solo II, and I'm not entirely thrilled with it. It seems to pick up a lot of finger noise, isn't all that clear, and doesn't really sound like my bass when played pizz, it actually doesn't sound bad arco, but that's not what the majority of my amplified playing right now is going to be.
I love the sound of my bass acoustically, but is there a way to translate that through an amp? I've played through both my rigs with it, and the sound just isn't all that pleasing amplified.
Does this sound like something that's generally a problem with piezo pickups? Would a microphone be a different story? Could the problem be something else?
I don't really have a big budget either, maybe $120 plus whatever I can get for the RSII.
I have a pretty decent grasp of electronics in slabs, but this it a whole different game.
Any suggestions would really be appreciated.

charlespf · #2 02-09-2008, 03:10 PM

What kind of amp do you play through? Many amps won't sound good with upright no matter what kind of pickup you use. Even with the right amp though, it's pretty hard to get that "my bass only louder" type of sound. Pickups are a compromise; Mics tend to sound more realistic, but feedback at lower volumes and can get muddy. For your situation I would recommend the David Gage Realist pickup; it tends to work well with many different amps, has lots of low end, and is fairly inexpensive. Actually, I have one that I'm thinking about selling. Would you want to trade for the RSII?

Marc Piane · #3 02-09-2008, 03:21 PM

I agree with the amp thing. Some amps have the wrong impedance input for piezos.

How loud is your band? I use a Realist and LOVE it but it is not the best amp for gettin' stoopid loud. Also, I'd look at your strings. Dominant are cool strings but you might want something like Spiro Mittels or something. They cut a bit more amplified IMO.

a.green.martian · #4 02-09-2008, 03:24 PM

I've played it through my Aguilar AG500 + DB 410 rig mostly, which I know is not nearly the ideal rig, but I still had the same problems with my EA Micro 300 + wizzy 10.
Thanks for the suggestion, I'll send you a PM if I decide to go with the Realist.

The band can get up there volume wise, but we try to keep it in check most of the time.
Thanks for the string suggestion.

Marc Piane · #5 02-09-2008, 03:30 PM

If loud is your thing and price is an issue I'd try an Underwood or Bassmax. Both get pretty loud before you start having to shove towels behind your tailpiece and stuff.

gnergaard · #6 02-10-2008, 01:26 AM

I do the upright in a fairly loud rock setting and though I'd agree that the underwood is a good choice for loud situations, I think that the Fishman Full Circle is even better. Almost feedback proof and requires little to no EQ.
Definitely reply about the amplifier you are using, though. It makes a huge difference. I use separate preamps for Electric and Upright live and wouldn't have it any other way. Depending on your head you may be able to use a separate preamp for your upright that will help it sound more natural- some heads will allow you to insert a separate signal into the effects loop return, others have a "power amp in" jack. A separate pre for your upright doesn't have to cost a fortune, either. Lots of people use the Fishman Platinum pre and those are very small outboard boxes that run well under $200 new. Other options would be a L.R. Bags, used Raven Labs, or even the "high pass filter pre" made by a talkbass member and sold on this site for $50. Also- I really recommend sending separate DI signals to the house system for Electric and Upright so that the sound engineer can EQ them separately. Unless you have a speaker on stage that is presenting you with a true hi-fi uncolored sound (not what most electric bassists want) the House P/A will need to eq your signal differently, often cutting the lows on the upright to reduce 'boom' below 100hz.
Feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions. I'm a bit of a hack compared to many of the folks on this site, but I do have a lot of experience with super-loud upright amplification.

gnergaard · #7 02-10-2008, 01:34 AM

I now see the post about the AG500 and Aguilar 410.
The 410 cab you are using probably has a big bump in the low mid frequencies which is what makes it a pleasing cab for electric bass. For upright this is often murder. Try cutting low mids between 100 and 200 hz for the upright and see if that gets you anywhere.
Does the AG 500 have two independent channels? If so I'd really recommend the High-Pass Filter Pre in the channel you use for upright. It should help to clear-up your tone with just about any piezo pick up out there.

drurb · #8 02-10-2008, 08:24 AM

I agree with most of what's been said here, especially with regard to amplification being a compromise. Most of us are in search of the "holy grail" that is "my bass only bigger." Before you go on a pickup hunt and spend more $$$, I have a few suggestions. You say you get much "finger noise" with the Rev Solo II. Have you tried flipping it over with the "R" facing the body? This will cut down on the finger noise. Who fit the Rev Solo to your bridge? Is it nice and snug but not "too snug?" As with all piezos, loading is an issue. You did say that you have the same problems with the Micro 300 and Wizzy 10. That amp should load the piezo properly and that combination should certainly get you a nice DB sound. In the end, the Rev Solo might just not be right for your bass and your preferences. In my experience, when it's good, it's REALLY good. There are many other fine pickups to try and those have been mentioned here. I would suggest that you stay away from the BassMax. That pickup has a big midrange hump that has made every bass on which I've put it sound like a giant BG. Yes, it's a "hot" pickup-- plenty of output but, IMO, it comes with too great a price in terms of unrefined sound.

pjleo · #9 02-11-2008, 06:44 PM

I had a lot of difficulty in getting a good sound from my rev solo 2 pick up at first.
But I kept trying........flipping it over . moving it around slightly, adjusting tightness [shims] , preamp/no preamp ,different preamps etc.
Now I get what i consider to be a pretty decent sound.
I would work at it some before you give up.
I use it with a loud Big band with no feedback problems.
I do prefer it over the Bass Max .
good luck........

MacDaddyBass · #10 02-11-2008, 09:22 PM

I agree with staying away from the BassMax. I just sold mine for a Realist and absolutely love the sound I'm getting from it. I also play a NS CR5M through my rig and my upright now kills it hands down when before it was about the same.

Greg Clinkingbeard · #11 02-12-2008, 07:15 AM

Full Circle.

jrlynch · #12 02-12-2008, 08:12 AM

I'm not a big fan of the rev solo, but step one should be making sure it's not getting loaded down by the amp input ... spring the $50 for the fdeck box as a first step. If you're in a band with a reasonably serious PA, I'd suggest mic-ing the bass and running that to the PA, and using the pickup/amp for yourself.

There are a million threads on all of this here already, though.

jeff.

drurb · #13 02-12-2008, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrlynch

I'm not a big fan of the rev solo, but step one should be making sure it's not getting loaded down by the amp input ... spring the $50 for the fdeck box as a first step.

I agree that proper loading is extremely important but the OP said he has the same problem with the Micro 300. That amp should provide pretty optimal loading. He's even got a Wizzy 10! I'd suggest that the OP work with that amp/cab and tweak the fitting of the pickup. If success is achieved, then, indeed, I'd suggest buying fdeck's gem (especially for ridding the system of infrasonics) and using it with any amp.

Greg Clinkingbeard · #14 02-12-2008, 08:46 AM

Certainly many people have had success with the RSII pickup, but I wasn't one of them. I've owned two.
The first one, fitted at Upton to my bridge, sounded pretty good, but wouldn't play very loud without feedback. I bought a Fishman Pro Platinum EQ which helped, but it never quite sounded right. That particular pickup developed problems, so I sent it back for another which I fitted myself with much better results. I used it into either a GK MB150 or Eden 260. Granted, not the best amps, but not bad. Fdeck's wonderbox helped, but it was another thing to deal with.
Moving to the Full Circle was a revelation. Even into the same amps it was much better. I now get a perfectly usable sound, into a Clarus III, at volume levels that would have been impossible with the RSII.
The Full Circle isn't perfect, but is is about as close to 'plug and play' as a pickup gets.

Marc Piane · #15 02-12-2008, 09:23 AM

I actually bought clink's RSII. It's ok but I like my Realist much better. I actually used both on a gig and everyone liked the Realist better. The RSII does get a very good sound though so I keep it my backpack just in case I have a problem with my Realist.

As far as the Bassmax. I've never actually used one myself but I've heard guys get a pretty good sound out of it. Jeez, I've heard guys get a nice tone out of a BP-100 which sounded like crap when I tried it. The Bassmax is also very feedback resistant from what I've heard.

Greg Clinkingbeard · #16 02-12-2008, 09:47 AM

Marc,
I didn't know if you still had the pickup. It's not a bad backup for sure, but certainly different than the Realist.
I really don't think there is such a thing as a BAD pickup; there are just many different types. In my limited experience, at one end, there is the BP-100 which is mostly string and no body. At the other is the Realist which is mostly body. It just depends what works on a particular bass.

drurb · #17 02-12-2008, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clink

It just depends what works on a particular bass.

That's the key! Certainly not "onse size (pickup) fits all."

**Chris Fitzgerald** · #18 02-12-2008, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fingers

Also, I'd look at your strings. Dominant are cool strings but you might want something like Spiro Mittels or something. They cut a bit more amplified IMO.

I dunno, I use Dominants and can get stoopid loud with the Full Circle and a mic. I'd look at the pickup and amp first.

Marc Piane · #19 02-12-2008, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

I dunno, I use Dominants and can get stoopid loud with the Full Circle and a mic. I'd look at the pickup and amp first.

Pickup then I guess. He says he's got a EA Micro 300 and a wizzy 10. Should sound great. I've been using gut core on top and they don't cut as well in rock settings as Spiros did. Dominants have a little darker sound too.

drurb · #20 02-12-2008, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

I dunno, I use Dominants and can get stoopid loud with the Full Circle and a mic. I'd look at the pickup and amp first.

I use Dominants and a Rev. Solo II with an iamp200 and a Wizzy12. Loud is no problem but, more importantly, I 'm quite happy with the sound. Yep, not all pickups work equally on all basses. That's for sure.