David Gage Realist Pickup: Preamp or not

Ben Esparza · #1 10-29-2009, 09:46 PM

Those of you that use a David Gage Realist Pickup for your URB: do you use a preamp between the pickup and the amp? Do you not? Please give me your opinions as to whether or not a preamp improves the sound of the Realist. I have a Raven Labs PHA-1 en route. Would like some opinions, please.

Jaromir · #2 10-30-2009, 07:24 AM

You don't need a preamp in the sense of impedance adjustment. Usually the Realist sounds better without one, even into 500 Kohm input.
You may, howewer, use a preamp for other reasons, like some tube device etc...

Gary Lynch · #3 10-30-2009, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaromir

You don't need a preamp in the sense of impedance adjustment. Usually the Realist sounds better without one, even into 500 Kohm input.
You may, howewer, use a preamp for other reasons, like some tube device etc...

I agree..........

Marc Piane · #4 10-30-2009, 08:09 AM

Agreed. I use a Platinum Pro for the HPF and phase switch. Sometimes I use a Sansamp depending on the amp. I feel like it beefs up the sound a bit much like a tube pre would.

drurb · #5 10-30-2009, 09:03 AM

..and if a HPF and phase-switch is what you are after, then you just can't beat fdeck's little gem. I recommend its use with ANY piezo pickup.

(I have no business interest in Francis' wonderful device.)

**Bob Gollihur** · #6 10-30-2009, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Esparza

Those of you that use a David Gage Realist Pickup for your URB: do you use a preamp between the pickup and the amp? Do you not? Please give me your opinions as to whether or not a preamp improves the sound of the Realist. I have a Raven Labs PHA-1 en route. Would like some opinions, please.

It all depends on what you plug it into. See my FAQ on the topic at http://www.gollihurmusic.com/faq/11-...RB_PICKUP.html as well as many posts.

But let your ears be the determining factor. The Raven is a great little box, give it a shot.

Lisbon3am · #7 10-30-2009, 03:33 PM

I play the Realist at the 500 Kohm input of the Mark Bass 121P, no Pre-amp, lots of power, nice sound.

Ben Esparza · #8 10-30-2009, 04:49 PM

I'll be using a Gallien Krueger MBE head into an SWR Baby Blue Monitor (2 x 8" plus 5" cone tweeter).

Mark Perna · #9 10-30-2009, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Esparza

Those of you that use a David Gage Realist Pickup for your URB: do you use a preamp between the pickup and the amp? Do you not? Please give me your opinions as to whether or not a preamp improves the sound of the Realist. I have a Raven Labs PHA-1 en route. Would like some opinions, please.

I use a Realist with one of my basses and I've tried it with and without a pre-amp and with my bass through a Focus into an AI cabinet, I think it sounds a little better without the preamp. It's close though. There wasn't a huge difference. I use a BP-100 on my other bass and there is a TREMENDOUS difference with and without a preamp with that pickup.

mark

Les Fret · #10 10-31-2009, 08:21 AM

What about the Full Circle: with or without a preamp?

Fletcher Lanning · #11 10-31-2009, 08:48 AM

I've found that any piezo pickup all but requires a preamp to get a decent sound. Generally speaking, most amps aren't designed for that level of impedance. That being said, I haven't gotten a chance to try to full circle, still using my Fishman B-100 until I get an adjustable bridge.

Ric Vice · #12 10-31-2009, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Esparza

I'll be using a Gallien Krueger MBE head into an SWR Baby Blue Monitor (2 x 8" plus 5" cone tweeter).

I've always used a Walter Woods or GK 200MB or MBE amp so all the various pickups I've used (Underwood, Fishman BP-100 and the Realist) have always been sent to a head that has a 1 megohm input. It sounds great that way. I had one of the original SWR Baby Blues and a Baby Blue Monitor Cabinet. Love the cabinet. It should sound great with just with that setup alone. Fdeck's HPF pre amp dose seem to smooth things out a little more though.

Ric

Jefenator · #13 10-31-2009, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flanning

I've found that any piezo pickup all but requires a preamp to get a decent sound. Generally speaking, most amps aren't designed for that level of impedance.

+1 IME/O

Quote:

Originally Posted by Les Fret

What about the Full Circle: with or without a preamp?

I've tried the Full Circle and the Realist straight in with a couple of different 500K amps (GK MB150S* and Markbass LMII). While it's not terrible, the dynamic and tonal response is noticeably not what it could/should be, at least to my ears.

I'm currently buffering with a Countryman Type 85 DI with a 10M input impedance and that has made a HUGE difference. I don't necessarily go by impedance spec's - I just roll with what my ears tell me (and in this case a few band mates have concurred).

Fdeck's buffer pre is en route and I'm hoping that will be just as effective & more handy.

* EDIT: apparently the GK input impedance is actually 1M, NOT 500K as I stated above. My bad. (I still do prefer it with an outboard buffer.)

Les Fret · #14 11-01-2009, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jefenator

I've tried the Full Circle and the Realist straight in with a couple of different 500K amps (GK MB150S and Markbass LMII). While it's not terrible, the dynamic and tonal response is noticeably not what it could/should be, at least to my ears.
.

seems like there are a lot of different opinions about using a preamp or not with the Full Circle (or Realist).

I have a Full Circle and always use it with a Platinum Pro preamp. I have never tried it without a preamp because I assumed it would be better with a preamp.

Is there a reason for not using a preamp? Can a preamp also make the sound worse (even with a flat EQ)?

Jaromir · #15 11-01-2009, 07:44 AM

Is there a reason for not using a preamp? Can a preamp also make the sound worse (even with a flat EQ)?[/quote]

Yes, it can make the sound muddy, too bass heavy, or kind of artificial. I remember fighting to get decent sound using a preamp, fiddling with EQ and HPF and all what it took to sound good was just omit the preamp :-)
This was the case with Realist, to be specific. With BP-100 the preamp is nearly necessary.

Jefenator · #16 11-01-2009, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Les Fret

seems like there are a lot of different opinions about using a preamp or not with the Full Circle (or Realist).

I have a Full Circle and always use it with a Platinum Pro preamp. I have never tried it without a preamp because I assumed it would be better with a preamp.

Is there a reason for not using a preamp? Can a preamp also make the sound worse (even with a flat EQ)?

My advice would be to play a set or half a rehearsal one way, then switch it out and see how you like it the other way. I've found that to be a very effective way of zeroing in on what works best for me.

(In my case, the Countryman DI worked so much better, I found myself rushing to patch it back in, mid-set. I like it when a decision is that easy.

)

Les Fret · #17 11-02-2009, 02:06 AM

Next rehearsal I will try that out.

drurb · #18 11-02-2009, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaromir

Yes, it can make the sound muddy, too bass heavy, or kind of artificial. I remember fighting to get decent sound using a preamp, fiddling with EQ and HPF and all what it took to sound good was just omit the preamp :-)
This was the case with Realist, to be specific. With BP-100 the preamp is nearly necessary.

It's difficult to understand why a pre-amp, with its presumably higher input impedance would produce the effect you describe, unless it was a strangely "voiced" pre-amp or there was some odd, non-optimal loading between the pre-amp and the next device in the chain.

Jaromir · #19 11-02-2009, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drurb

It's difficult to understand why a pre-amp, with its presumably higher input impedance would produce the effect you describe, unless it was a strangely "voiced" pre-amp or there was some odd, non-optimal loading between the pre-amp and the next device in the chain.

For me it's very difficult to understand, as I have very little knowledge about electronics. Instinctivelly I would say the more electronics the more electronic sound. My experience included Realist and Radial PZ Pre for acoustic instruments. However, Realist into Fdeck preamp is fine, no problems. Maybe because it's so simple device.
But could't just the fact of changing the impedance to 10Mohm be enough reason for changing the sound? (Which is more true with the Radial and less with Fdeck pre for some reason)

boylebass · #20 11-02-2009, 11:41 AM

I almost always use my trusty Fishman PP with my realist. As <all hail> Bob says, it's the swiss army knife of preamps. the HPF and phase functions can be life-savers. 5 band eq don't hurt a bit. Direct out that sounds good, and a tuner out.

Even if I'm not using it, it's in my gig bag.