DB through EB amp?

Fletcher Lanning · #1 12-28-2009, 10:17 PM

I did a number of searches and didn't find anything even though I'm SURE that this question has been asked before, so sorry.

Can I use my electric bass amp to get a passable (read:not terrible and wonky) sound from my Kay equipped with a Fishman BP-100? I play though on of the Ampeg Diamond Blue Combos (B200R) it is a solid state with a tube pre-amp built in. I've been messing with the EQ but can't seem to get something that I like out of it. Should I be using an external pre-amp (I tested that theory out with a friends comp16 pre-amp compressor and it didn't seem to do much, but I have no clue what I'm doing when it comes to pre-amps)?

davidAaronCarte · #2 12-28-2009, 10:51 PM

If the amp has passive EQ controls I often find turning all of the EQ to zero usually comes out sounding cleaner
You'll lose some volume
I use a Fishman pre-amp with a lot of Traynor and Fender electric bass amps at my university to good effect, usually in conjunction with removing the EQ section
If your amp has a pre-amp in so you can bypass the onboard one, all the better...

Wallyphonic · #3 12-29-2009, 12:58 AM

Those Diamond Blue combos sound pretty decent. If you don't like the sound you are getting it probably has more to do with your pickup. The BP100 is pretty much the worst pickup out there IMO, although some folks swear by 'em. You definitely need a buffer preamp with that pickup. That will improve the sound drastically. Most piezos need a high impedance input (at least 1 meg ohm) but especially the fishman bp100.

bassdaddyfive · #4 12-29-2009, 01:11 AM

You have a issue with input impedence. Most bass guitar amps are made to work with magnetic pickups, with or without active electronics. With piezo. type pickups, you need some type of pre/ buffer amp between your bass pickup and your amp input. I use a Fishman Buffer preamp. There are other brands out there. It will make your bass work much better with your amp.

moles · #5 12-29-2009, 01:24 AM

The BP-100 definitely needs a pre-amp - with a 10Mohm input impedance. You may have noticed in your searches that the pickup gets a bunch of not-so-great reviews here, and a few not bad ones. I don't think it's going too far out on a limb to say that anyone who's had a good experience with it has used some sort of high impedance pre with it. You may very well decide to move on to another pickup, but just about anything else you try (with a couple of exceptions) will need a preamp, so if you shell out some bucks for one to help out the BP-100, you will still find it useful down the road.

As far as using an electric bass amp with a DB - sure, it can work out just fine. It depends on a few things - how much "voicing" is built in to it, what the eq section is like, how boomy the speaker/cabinet is, what kind of sound you're going for......and whether or not it simply "fits in the equation" with your bass/strings/playing style/pickup/the room/and what aftershave you put on this morning.

I use a small Eden Nemesis 2x8 combo for small/medium gigs, and an Ashdown head with 1 or 2 4x10s for the stoopid loud (as they're becoming known around here) gigs. Those are both electric bass amps, and I make them work for me.

The Nemesis works well, because it's small, "flat" sounding (I don't know if it really is a flat response, but it sounds flat, if you catch my drift) and has two channels if I want to blend in a second pickup, or a mic even. The eight inch speakers are a big plus too.

The Ashdown I've gigged three times a week for the past two years straight, so I know it (and what it can handle) inside and out. The high impedance input has saved my ass a couple of times when I was left without the Eden, OR a preamp and had to plug straight in to finish a gig.

JerBo · #6 12-29-2009, 06:27 AM

I can only speak for the K&K Bass max pickup, Edit: This is also a high impedence p/u and was horrible until I got a proper preamp.
But it's worked out very well for me once I got a good preamp.
I'm using a Radial PZ-Pre which has made all the difference in the world.
As for your main question, I'm using an EB amp (SWR WM15) and it's been working fine for me.
I am looking to replace it though just not sure with what.
But I find with any of the "electric" amps I've used it's best (for me) to run from the preamp into the effects return, bypassing the amps "coloration"
I haven't been happy at all with my SWR when I run through it's main inputs.
However, I did a gig recently where they had an Ampeg 115 combo with a tiltback. It was a newer model. I ran my pre into the standard input and I loved it!
A lot of DB players around here don't seem to like 15's, and I can understand why for the classical guys and the jazz purists.
I play a lot of roots-rock, country, blues, bluegrass, jam sort of stuff so for me the 15 has worked.
It seems in a lot of cases that you want to avoid adding a lot of EQ if possible, if anything take out problem frequencies.
Do some searching. There's a seemingly endless supply of knowledge on this site... It's been EXTREMELY useful for me!
Didn't mean to ramble on there... Good luck.

MNAirHead · #7 12-29-2009, 06:42 AM

I use a fishman preamp and properly ported cabinet..

JerBo · #8 12-29-2009, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

I use a fishman preamp and properly ported cabinet..

What kind of cab are you using?
I'm looking for a decent cab for my DB.
Someone emailed me and said to get an Avatar 2x10, I think he may have been a rep or something.

You got some old Air-cooled motors up there in MN???
I had an old Westfalia Bus... LOVED that thing.

MNAirHead · #9 12-29-2009, 07:00 AM

Cabinet..
Best results I've had are with cabs I've had built and ported -- I relied on smarter folks to do the physics. The smallest successful one is a 1x12 ported very low.. it's not ideal for stadium level output -- good enough for mort of our uses.

Aircooled..
A few too many in my garages.

Fletcher Lanning · #10 12-29-2009, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerBo

But I find with any of the "electric" amps I've used it's best (for me) to run from the preamp into the effects return, bypassing the amps "coloration"

I am always loathe to ask questions about electronics because I know so very little about any of that. I know tons about music, but nothing about amplifications lol, so could someone explain what this means?

AMJBASS · #11 12-29-2009, 09:50 AM

Going into the effects return will enable you to bypass the amps preamp(combo amps and amp heads are basically 2 parts, preamp and power amp together), so you can get away from the coloration that the preamp gives you. However, the B200R doesn't have an effects loop. What you NEED is an external preamp that matches the impedance of your BP-100 pickup to the Ampeg. I would recommend the Fishman B2 preamp. It is relatively inexpensive, and will make a huge difference in the sound. The K&K stuff is also good for the money.

McGryff · #12 12-30-2009, 01:38 PM

Shop for a better pickup before you shop for an amp. There's a wealth of bassists who don't find much to like about the BP-100. That doesn't make it a slam-dunk, but it's worth investigating. I had an Ampeg B100R for awhile, and I played a K&K Bassmax through it with no preamp. It was ok, but with a preamp I bet it would've been nicer. The rocket bass series isn't necessarily bad for DB, but it'll lend a certain tone. I used to take lessons from Jeff Campbell at Eastman & he thought they were good & said Eastman had a few for the bassists. So it will work, but it depends alot on the tone you're going for. But try out another pickup before dropping alot of coin on a different amp - it's a cheaper & more dramatic way to change your tone initially.

mattfong · #13 01-01-2010, 10:10 PM

I had an interesting experience with a BP-100:

I could get a decent tone through my Eden CXC210 (an incredible EB amp) with it, but with my Realist that amp just plain sucks.

Until yesterday, when I bought a Sansamp Para Driver DI. The thing is ridiculously amazing.

Ric Vice · #14 01-02-2010, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flanning

I did a number of searches and didn't find anything even though I'm SURE that this question has been asked before, so sorry.

Can I use my electric bass amp to get a passable (read:not terrible and wonky) sound from my Kay equipped with a Fishman BP-100? I play though on of the Ampeg Diamond Blue Combos (B200R) it is a solid state with a tube pre-amp built in. I've been messing with the EQ but can't seem to get something that I like out of it. Should I be using an external pre-amp (I tested that theory out with a friends comp16 pre-amp compressor and it didn't seem to do much, but I have no clue what I'm doing when it comes to pre-amps)?

Fanning,
The quickest most affordable fix would be to purchase the HPF/Buffer Preamp from FDeck unfortunately he can't sell them across the border outside the U.S. so the next best thing would be to get the either of the two Fishman buffer preamps. I don't know what the Comp 16 pre amp does but my bet is that it doesn't raise the input impedance high enough to match the 10 megohm load that the Fishman needs to sound better. If you venture over to the Presonus website you will find that it's input impedance is only 10 k so that's not going to buffer the input into the Ampeg at all. Presonus did build a box at one time that did that but I don't see it on their website anymore and it has to be way more expensive than the HPF or Fishman boxes. When you get some cash buy a different pickup the BP-100 only works on certain basses. Usually, ones with carved tops and backs.

Ric

McGryff · #15 01-02-2010, 10:05 AM

+1 - either the SansAmp Para DI or the Fishman preamps will work well towards that end. I had a Para DI for quite awhile, and it's a good piece of equipment. I'm leaning in the direction of getting the Fishman Pro-plat EQ these days... looks like almost everything you could want in one box; looks very useful.