Do I need a preamp?

[dar512]

I've read B(AH)G's page on this subject, but I'm still not sure. I've got a Behringer head. It's got two input jacks active and passive. According to the specs the input impedance on the active input is 220 kOhms and the impedance on the passive is 750 kOhms. I'm thinking about getting the Bass Max pickup.

[Whit Townsend]

You may get by, but in my experience, a piezo transducer always sounds better with a well matched pre-amp regardless of the application. Be it on a bass, guitar, banjo, thru an amp or thru the PA, or whatever. They always work best with that buffer and additional eq-ability.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Whit Townsend

You may get by, but in my experience, a piezo transducer always sounds better with a well matched pre-amp regardless of the application. Be it on a bass, guitar, banjo, thru an amp or thru the PA, or whatever. They always work best with that buffer and additional eq-ability.

Well, unless your amp has a suitably high-impedance input. I use the Rev. Solo into an EA iamp200. It sounds just fine. I heard no substantial difference between going straight in to the iamp's 1 M-ohm input and inserting a pre-amp with a 10 M-ohm input.

That's partly a function of the Rev. Solo's transducer characteristics, to be sure. So, dar512, why a BassMax?

[dar512]

Originally Posted by DRURB

So, dar512, why a BassMax?

It's the frontrunner so far. A lot of folks here on TB have spoken well of the sound. Plus, simple installation and price.

It's not a done deal, by any means. I'm just starting to move from a Dean Pace to DB. I'l be talking to my DB instructor before making a decision.

[Whit Townsend]

Even if the pu you choose should work well with the amp you have now, what happens when you have to use a different amp? Or run thru the PA system of the hour? A pre-amp reccommended as a good match to you pu is still a worthwhile piece of gear to own.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Whit Townsend

Even if the pu you choose should work well with the amp you have now, what happens when you have to use a different amp? Or run thru the PA system of the hour? A pre-amp reccommended as a good match to you pu is still a worthwhile piece of gear to own.

I never use a different amp. I don't run through a PA. You are quite correct that, for those who will need to do these things, it is very useful to have a pre-amp handy. No argument here! I was just noting that some amps "make nice" with piezos.

[Jaromir]

I use a Realist and it sounds better without preamp into my SWR Baby Blue head, which has only 800 kOhm impedance input. I get very rich and full sound. With 10MOhm preamp, the sound becomes muddy and to my surprise thinner (midley sounding) in the higher register of the bass.
So, as it was stated before in different threads - the new generation piezo pickup (Realist, Full Circle, Rev. Solo) don't need a preamp, they were adjusted to be accepted by regular amps with lower input impedance.

[snowdan]

i'd say the presence of a preamp is a minor element in th esignal chain. i hear hardly any difference between 1 and 5 megOhms. proper installation of piezos is far more important.

too low input impedance will roll off some bass, but that's not too bad.

i would always try it without first.

[Andy Allen]

It's funny how we have different experiences with this - here's mine.

I bought a bassmax and was unhappy with the sound into an SWR combo. I bought the K&K preamp and this improved things dramatically. I then swapped the SWR for an AI Clarus, but retained the pre-amp because it was convenient to have some volume adjustment close to me.

I fitted a Realist, and tried plugging it into the K&K preamp. It sounded horribly nasal. I plugged it directly into the AI hi-impedance input and it sounded great. In fact, if you switch the AI input to lo-impedance it sounds nasal, switch it back to hi-impedance and it sounds fine.

A couple of things I've learned from this (even if it doesn't jibe with some of your findings here ): 1) The BassMax works best when matched with the K&K preamp (not much of a surprise, really): 2) Different pickups require different input impedances to get the best tone from them.

I think I'm going to build one of Fdeck's preamps with a variable input impedance and do some 'sperimentin'.

Andy

[dar512]

Originally Posted by airbass

I think I'm going to build one of Fdeck's preamps with a variable input impedance and do some 'sperimentin'.

That would be cool. Let us know what you find out.

[BobBell]

Here's my 2 cents.... I read extensively prior to purchasing an amp and pickup for my DB. I ended up with a SWR and an Underwood. This combination came highly recommended, especially from a couple of local bass players. At home everything sounded just great. On my first gig in a weird room with elec piano, alto on a harsh mike and a very busy drummer..... I quickly discovered the very pleasant sound I got at home was barely heard in this setting. I found no acceptable setting(s) by night's end. The next day I purchased a pre-amp (GigPro but I don't think it matters). Gig #2 was wonderful. I had full control of volume, gain, bass, treble, mix, etc., all at my finger tips. In a couple of months I hope to have "my sound" all dialed in. A good point here is to try out, and listen to, many combinations and satisfy yourself.

[carved czech]

I am using Underwood pu on my basses, through GK MBE150. My former bass (old,flatback, dark) sounded better without a preamp. But my new bass (carved back,bright, punchy) sounds nice through old Fishman "Acoustic Bass" preamp, running into Return input of GK.

[steve in tampa]

Here's a handy little thing to have in the bag:

http://www.pickupcentral.com/putwpowerplug.html

+30dB boost w/ volume

I also use this w/ an outboard pre amp ,and on guitars w/ active PUs

http://www.schattendesign.com/blackbox.htm

[bolo]

From what I've read here on TB, the BassMax seems to work fine without a preamp in certain cases, I think moreso than other types of pickups. [ I always used a K&K preamp with mine, and never actually tried it w/out one ].

Now, that being said - I don't think you'd be making a bad decision at all if you were to go ahead and purchase a decent preamp.

If you think about the different basses, pickups, and amps (and combinations thereof) you will eventually use and/or own, a preamp might help a lot in some cases, and not so much in others. I think you can tell from the responses in just this thread that "It depends." Even people using the same type pickup or the same type of amp don't always agree on the benefits of using a pre.

I might offer the view that it would be better to have one (that's well known and well suited for DB) on hand to try in each new situation you encounter, then to continually wonder "Would it sound better if I had one?"

Besides, I figure once you do some gigs with it, you will eventually recoup your cost.

I say go for it.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Here's a link to a previous discussion of this topic.