does any know anything about mini condensor mics?

[oldicer]

Hey, does anyone know about mini condensor mics? I`ve put one in the f hole facing the bridge under the low strings, then I tried moving it under the high strings. but it seems to boom to much. can anyone give me some advice? I got tired of the sm58 wraped in a towel.would appreciate any help. Thanks

[drurb]

Originally Posted by oldicer

Hey, does anyone know about mini condensor mics? I`ve put one in the f hole facing the bridge under the low strings, then I tried moving it under the high strings. but it seems to boom to much. can anyone give me some advice? I got tired of the sm58 wraped in a towel.would appreciate any help. Thanks

I could go on and on about microphones. There are many possible explanations for why you are not happy with the approach you have taken. It does not surprise me. It is much simpler to suggest that you will do much better with a quality pickup.

[bolo]

oldicer, you might could check this out if you haven't already. Several links to pore over re: the mic thing if you haven't seen them yet.

I think for smaller mics the AMT S25B and the ATM35 show up in a lot of threads. I have experience with the K&K Golden Bullet and the AMT. But lately I have been having more fun with a larger dynamic mic and a new mic clamp for DB. This is the thread that got me started on that kick. Lots of real good info there too.

The best position for a mic that I have found on my bass is not in front of the f-hole or strapped or stuck between the bridge legs. It's halfway between the bridge and the end of the fingerboard. But it is hard to get there without that new fangled mic clamp, or a long gooseneck like the AMT has. The good ol' mic stand in front of the bridge thing isn't always practical in my gigging situations, but yours may vary.

I don't disagree w/ DRURB either. Lots of people get very good results w/ DB pickups like the Full Circle, Realist and Rev Solo, just to name a few.

[mje]

The worst places to mount a microphone have to be in an F-hole, or inside a bass, where the acoustics are just too complex, with all the different nodes and peaks. I'd clamp it to the tailpiece and orient it pretty much in the same direction as you did the SM58, and run the cable down the tailpiece.

Most of the sound from a bass is radiated from the table. What comes out of the f-holes is not the same full-range sound.

[bolo]

Here's another good mic thread.

[Silversorcerer]

In the past year I have had the pleasure of hearing Chris Wood up close and personal in a couple of small/medium venues here using his double bass rig which combines a small condenser (I don't know the model, but this thing is smaller than a penny) with a piezo and his placement is between the bridge and end of the fingerboard no more than an inch above the plate dead center left to right. It is just a little closer to the FB than the bridge. He gets a very "live" sound that way. I think he has a full circle on the bass leg of the bridge.

SD systems LCM 100 and LCM 100 XLR have an interesting placement with a bracket that attaches to the underside of the bridge. That's one I might try if I get one of those AI amps with phantom power.

Using a thick, dark colored sock (make sure you wash it first) is better than a towel for the SM 57 behind tailpiece method. I used that for a while and was surprised at how well it worked and how good a sound one could get that way. I didn't have very high hopes. Feedback at low levels was the worst problem.

[bolo]

Originally Posted by Silversorcerer

In the past year I have had the pleasure of hearing Chris Wood up close and personal in a couple of small/medium venues here using his double bass rig which combines a small condenser (I don't know the model, but this thing is smaller than a penny) with a piezo and his placement is between the bridge and end of the fingerboard no more than an inch above the plate dead center left to right. It is just a little closer to the FB than the bridge. He gets a very "live" sound that way.

I like that spot in between the bridge and the end of the FB too. But I've found that in order to reach it with a mic, you need some type of mic clamp and/or or long gooseneck, presumably attached to the middle bout, or coming up from the tailpiece, no?

DPA makes some mics that are very small, and very expensive. Maybe it was one of those. I've seen John Brown with a 4021 on his bass.

[mje]

Originally Posted by bolo

...

DPA makes some mics that are very small, and very expensive.

Looks like they're using the old Bruel & Kjaer designs- maybe they bought the tooling. If so, those are probably the flattest, most accurate microphones you can buy. I used them in biomedical instrumentation. (And we used to borrow them for music recording. DRURB: You know who I'm talking about.)

[Marc Piane]

I've tried many mic/pickup setups and combinations. This is the one that works best for me. My two criterion are 1 sound 2 minimal hassle. I have had marginally better success with other setups but so slight that I hit the 'easy button'.

I use:

Shen Willow 3/4 Flatback ---> Realist, Golden Trinity Mic ---> K&K pickup/mic blender ---> Sansamp bass di ---> GK MB150S

It sounds like a bunch of stuff but really dig the sound I get and get comments from people I work with all the time. I do no eq from the Sansamp. I really just use it because it beefs up the sound a bit and it gives the soundman a clean signal in case I have to go through the house. There are some live recordings on my website

Here's some photos of the mic placement. They are just photos I took with my cell phone but they get the point across.

[bolo]

Originally Posted by mje

Looks like they're using the old Bruel & Kjaer designs- maybe they bought the tooling. If so, those are probably the flattest, most accurate microphones you can buy.

mje, I think you're exactly right. If you go to the DPA (Danish Pro Audio) site and click on Company Profile and then Company History, it tells a little bit about the connection to Bruel & Kjaer.

[PB+J]

This is not your question but for me the schertler dyn-b has been excellent. It's a dynamic mic, not a condenser mic, that sticks onto the top. It sounds pretty close to an sm57 wrapped in a towel with less headaches. I stuck the thing on my bass, moved it maybe twice, and haven't touched it since.

On my bass, it's great--I get a very natural sound, no piezo artifacts, no need for phantom power, reasonable feedback resistance. On the other hand, my buddy Bolo tried one and hated it. The Double Bass Workshop (http://www.doublebassworkshop.com/) will let you try it before you buy it.

[bolo]

Originally Posted by PB+J

This is not your question but for me the schertler dyn-b has been excellent. It's a dynamic mic, not a condenser mic, that sticks onto the top. It sounds pretty close to an sm57 wrapped in a towel with less headaches. I stuck the thing on my bass, moved it maybe twice, and haven't touched it since.

On my bass, it's great--I get a very natural sound, no piezo artifacts, no need for phantom power, reasonable feedback resistance. On the other hand, my buddy Bolo tried one and hated it. The Double Bass Workshop (http://www.doublebassworkshop.com/) will let you try it before you buy it.

Hey pal. Actually the only thing I hated was the fact that I couldn't get a sound that I liked with the DYN-B with my bass, using my preamps, amps, fingers, et al. In my head and on paper in terms of its design I really liked it and I thought it was really cool. And I know you and many others say you can get a very natural sound with it, and I don't doubt it.

You're right about that trial offer from The Double Bass Workshop. IMO it is a no brainer if you really want to find out how the DYN-B is going to sound on your bass.

In addition, I still think this thread was very helpful about outlining various mic choices, inc. mic positions and mounting possibilities. Many of these mics are easy to find and not too expensive. In general the dynamic mics can go louder before feedback too I believe, another big plus over some of the condensers, including the K&K Golden Bullet / Golden Trinity and the AMT, both of which I happen to own.

[Silversorcerer]

Originally Posted by bolo

I like that spot in between the bridge and the end of the FB too. But I've found that in order to reach it with a mic, you need some type of mic clamp and/or or long gooseneck, presumably attached to the middle bout, or coming up from the tailpiece, no?

DPA makes some mics that are very small, and very expensive. Maybe it was one of those. I've seen John Brown with a 4021 on his bass.

I don't think it was a DPA. That mic was flat like a dime and a little smaller. It was held in place by a single stiff wire that sort of hovered out over the body.

[bilco]

Harvey Gerst, a respected engineer says that putting a microphone directly on the F Hole on a bass or the soundhole on an acoustic guitar is like walking up to a speaker stack at a concert and putting your ear up to the cabinet with the woofers in it.

The true sound of an acoustic instrument develops at the edge of the nearfield, which is the length of the longest part of the body. If the body of the bass is 45", the edge of the nearfield is 45" in front of the bass. Granted, this is too far away to be useful in a live situation, but even moving the mic out to 12" away would give a more complete picture of the whole instrument. That probably won't work except in very low volume gigs.

Get a pickup.......

Bill Colbert