Does anyone LIKE the Fishman BP-100?

[jobo4]

I've done a lot of searching and reading of these forums over the last couple of days and have seen a lot of hate expressed for the Fishman BP-100.

I just scored one off of Ebay for $50 and I have found a K&K Pure Preamp for $40 used. My amp is an Eden Metro 210 combo (2 channel, semi-parametric eq.)

My hope is that I will be able to get a usable pizz tone from my Christopher laminate.

Any guesses? And, do I really need the 10 MOhm input impedence of a Fishman pre to make it sound right?

Edit: FYI I'm new to DB

[Kevin Hsieh]

welcome to the dark side hehe! up until recently i was borrowing my school's bass (a rotting plywood with a BP-100) to play restaurant gigs and parties and whatnot. i think the most crucial element is to get the pressure just right on the pickup elements. make sure you follow all the directions unlike my band instructor, who just slapped the clamps on. i believe you have to shave down the bridge or something (i'm not quite sure). anyways. i got a terrible tinny sound, but i got by. for the price, it'll do you well, if you make sure you get everything set up correctly.

cheers

[jobo4]

Originally Posted by Kevin Hsieh

welcome to the dark side hehe! up until recently i was borrowing my school's bass (a rotting plywood with a BP-100) to play restaurant gigs and parties and whatnot. i think the most crucial element is to get the pressure just right on the pickup elements. make sure you follow all the directions unlike my band instructor, who just slapped the clamps on. i believe you have to shave down the bridge or something (i'm not quite sure). anyways. i got a terrible tinny sound, but i got by. for the price, it'll do you well, if you make sure you get everything set up correctly.

cheers

Thanks Kevin. From a novice's perspective, The BP-100 seems like a good design. The bridge wing models (like the Rev and BassMax) look to have far less contact with the wood of the instrument. Why do they get a better tone?

[damonsmith]

I like how Red Mitchell ann Fred Hopkins sounded with theirs. Unfortunately I am not either of those guys.
When I had one I super glued one to the rear, bottom center of the bridge and put chewing gum on the back of the other and taped it to the body in between the bridge feet with a small piece of electrical tape.
That set up was really natural and woody, but has obvious drawbacks.
The main problem is those clips are worse than a mute and choke most of the acoustic sound.

[Kevin Hsieh]

Originally Posted by jobo4

Thanks Kevin. From a novice's perspective, The BP-100 seems like a good design. The bridge wing models (like the Rev and BassMax) look to have far less contact with the wood of the instrument. Why do they get a better tone?

i'm not much of a technician so i don't have any idea why the wing models are better. for the price you paid for it you have a workable pickup, though it has its drawbacks and bothers. bring it in to a knowledgeable luthier or someone who can deal with setting up the pickup correctly. with the preamp you should be able to coax a decent sound of it.

i'm currently playing a xuechang sun bass with an underwood and that has been doing great for me. it's also a wing model p/u. if you ever feel like upgrading i highly recommend it.

you could probably find a used underwood on TB once in a while.

[Bob Gollihur]

Originally Posted by jobo4

Thanks Kevin. From a novice's perspective, The BP-100 seems like a good design. The bridge wing models (like the Rev and BassMax) look to have far less contact with the wood of the instrument. Why do they get a better tone?

Generally speaking:
Closer to the top of the bridge, more emphasis on string sound and less body... closer to the body, more body sound with less string detail. The middle, more of a balance of string and body.

[BassBod]

I've still got one on EUB - its superglued on, still works and sounds ok.

The installation is important - it has to go onto a really flat surface to make the best sound, and superglue does help. A good preamp is also a must, otherwise it can sound very trebly and thin.

Most of the time I use the Realist for a deeper, darker tone, but if I'm allowed two channels for recording I'll also use the BP100 for a brighter sound with a bit of finger noise. Mix them to taste - it works!

BB

[mellassie]

I've used one for the last 7 years, I've tried Schertler stat B, Revolution solo and a couple of K&K's and I keep going back to the Fishman. I like it and I have no idea why people slag them constantly

[jobo4]

Originally Posted by mellassie

I've used one for the last 7 years, I've tried Schertler stat B, Revolution solo and a couple of K&K's and I keep going back to the Fishman. I like it and I have no idea why people slag them constantly

Thanks Mel, an actual endorsement. Do you mount it the suggested way?

[jobo4]

Originally Posted by Bob Gollihur

Generally speaking:
Closer to the top of the bridge, more emphasis on string sound and less body... closer to the body, more body sound with less string detail. The middle, more of a balance of string and body.

Could I shim them into the bridge wings?

[Bob Gollihur]

Originally Posted by jobo4

Could I shim them into the bridge wings?

You could try it. Just watch out for phase cancellation since both pickups would receive a similar signal and could cancel some of the frequencies. The symptom is usually a lack of bass frequency response, and you can confirm it by removing one transducer to see if the signal gets louder.

[gnergaard]

Originally Posted by BassBod

I've still got one on EUB - its superglued on, still works and sounds ok.

The installation is important - it has to go onto a really flat surface to make the best sound, and superglue does help. A good preamp is also a must, otherwise it can sound very trebly and thin.

Most of the time I use the Realist for a deeper, darker tone, but if I'm allowed two channels for recording I'll also use the BP100 for a brighter sound with a bit of finger noise. Mix them to taste - it works!

BB

I did the same thing with a realist and A bP 100 until I got the new Full Circle and I agree- those pickups seemed to compliment eachother nicely. Tons of phase issues though.
I had a BP-100 that came installed on my bass when I bought it. I learned to use it and to hate it and then to miss it- pretty much in that order. For me, it took A LOT of EQ-ing to get it to work. It was all highs and all lows and no mids so I must have been rolling off at least 7db of bass and treble on the EQ of a Walter woods. Total reverse "smiley-face" EQ if you saw it on a graphic. This resulted in a sound that is virtually un-bow-able, but a very detailed, electric sounding pizz tone. Not natural sounding, but much better gain before feedback than the realist and many other pickup designs.
It pretty much gets a "Ron Carter" 70's kind of sound. Very growly and lots of sheen. It's not the sound for everyday, but once in a while I find myself wanting a sound like this, especially in the studio. Almost like a URB effect pedal. Don't get rid of it, try it out, find some EQ options for yourself and your instrument and see if you can get a cool sound- even if it isn't what your bass actually sounds like.
Have Fun!

[lhoward]

Originally Posted by Bob Gollihur

You could try it. Just watch out for phase cancellation since both pickups would receive a similar signal and could cancel some of the frequencies. The symptom is usually a lack of bass frequency response, and you can confirm it by removing one transducer to see if the signal gets louder.

Similar signals with resultant cancellation infers that the two piezo elements are wired out-of-phase. True? I guess I assumed that they'd be wired in-phase for reinforcement. I don't understand what the rationale for out-of-phase wiring would be if they, in fact, are.

I've owned a BP-100 for a few years, but have not experienced any bass-deficient, tinny sound. I've used a K&K model 97 preamp, a Fishman Pro EQ Platinum Bass, and a Tech21 Acoustic DI. I've had similar results except that the Fishman is the best I've used so far. Of course, when I installed (more than once) the pickup, I tested the amount of pressure (not too loose, not too tight, not really a technical measurement) the clips exert on the pickup against the bridge, plus my bridges are not rounded near the top, as some are, so the pickup is against a flat surface, not a curved surface which could reduce the surface contact area. For rounded bridges, I've seen a recommendation, elsewhere in these forums, to mount the pickups on the underside, flat area of the bridge.

Lloyd Howard

[Mark Perna]

The BP-100 has been my pickup of choice on most of my basses for over a decade. That said, I've had problems with some basses. I've owned 3 plywoods and I could never get a good sound of it with any of them and ended up using an Underwood on the earlier ones and using The Realist on the last one. I have 3 Juzeks ('28,'33 and a '74). With the older ones, I get a fat, rounded but clear tone that is just gorgeous. I get a slightly more edgy tone on the '74. I'm actively working trying to smooth it out now. I have 2 Kolstein Lafaro Travel basses. The BP-100 sounds fantastic on one and I can't get a decent sound at all out of the other but I'm still working on it. It seems to do really well with carved basses.

I was able to mount the pickup on the upper side of the bridge on the older Juzeks with great results. The '74 and both Kolsteins are mounted on the under side of the bridge. The Kolstein bridges are rounded on the top side and the '74 sounded horrible with the piezos mounted on top.

The only problem to watch for is the weight of the instrument cable damages the jack over time and it can't be repaired. I find I have to replace the pickup every one to two years of relatively heavy playing (I'm gigging 10-12 times per month right now down from 16-20 a few years ago). The symptom is the gradual loss of low frequency response. Once I notice it, I slap a new one on and I'm back to full response.

[jobo4]

Wow. Thanks to everyone for such great responses. I seems like at the very least I'll keep it for appropriate situations.

I will update when and if I find a sound I like.

[robgrow]

While they're not popular on this forum, some of the best bass players I've ever seen have used the Fishman BP-100. Like many other piezo pickups, fit is very important with the BP-100. The mounting surfaces on the bridge must be very flat and clean, and the mounting clips must be very snug. The better the contact between the piezo pickup elements and the bridge, the better the sound will be. Also use very high quality cables of the shortest length possible. Some amps are more suitable than others. Amps voiced for a bright, modern bass guitar sound will probably sound awful for double bass no matter what pickup you are using and this is particularly so for the BP-100.

In over 25 years, I've seen one BP-100 actually go bad, and that was caused by abuse. The pickup elements themselves are very stable and do not degrade, nor do the high-quality Switchcraft jacks easily go bad. Contamination and corrosion are the enemies of any audio connector, and this is especially important when dealing with very high impedance pickups.

[Johnny Atomic]

Originally Posted by lhoward

Similar signals with resultant cancellation infers that the two piezo elements are wired out-of-phase. True? I guess I assumed that they'd be wired in-phase for reinforcement. I don't understand what the rationale for out-of-phase wiring would be if they, in fact, are.

They're not talking about being out of phase electrically, but out of phase physically, positioned such that they read a different portion of the vibration wave effectively canceling each other out.

BTW i absolutely dispise the BP100, mine was thin, no bass, fed back HORRIBLY. I tried mounting it a hundred ways to sunday, all sounded bad. Since then I've had the Rev solo 2, the K&K rockabilly, and the underwood, all beat the bp100 by MILES.


Johnny

[jobo4]

I actually ended up getting a K&K Bass Max due to all the poo-pooing. It sounds fine. The BP-100 will likely be used when lots of string detail is appropriate or in conjunction with the Bass Max.

[Mark Perna]

Originally Posted by Johnny Atomic

BTW i absolutely dispise the BP100, mine was thin, no bass, fed back HORRIBLY. I tried mounting it a hundred ways to sunday, all sounded bad. Since then I've had the Rev solo 2, the K&K rockabilly, and the underwood, all beat the bp100 by MILES.


Johnny

Did you try it with a plywood or a carved bass? I've used the BP-100 on 3 different carved basses with great results. I've tried using it on 3 different plywood basses with absolutely no success at all. The sample is too small to draw any definite conclusions but one is looking obvious.

[Mark Perna]

Originally Posted by robgrow

In over 25 years, I've seen one BP-100 actually go bad, and that was caused by abuse. The pickup elements themselves are very stable and do not degrade, nor do the high-quality Switchcraft jacks easily go bad.

When I was playing 20-25 gigs per month, I'd have to replace my BP-100 every 1.5-2 years because the jack would go bad. The weight of the Monster Cable I use wears on the inside of the jack. After a while, the wear becomes great enough that contact isn't as sure and a noticeable loss of low end occurs. It happens slowly enough that it kind of sneaks up you. I'm only playing 10-12 gigs per month now and the jacks are lasting a bit longer. I've had one on for about two years and it is still going strong.