Don't Ask Don't Tell - Magnetic Pickup Content

Joe Smithberger · #1 07-23-2006, 02:15 PM

Call me a hack, but I just did my first gig with a magnetic pickup...and liked it. I know, I know, it doesn't sound like "my bass only louder" but who cares.

For the past couple of years, I have played on and off with a group doing rock, country, gospel and blues Christian music in all kind of strange venues ranging from coffee houses to 2000 seat theaters. The main guy is a singer/songwriter type that likes to play acoustic guitar with effects. Usually we have drums (mostly Edrums) and another guitar or keyboard and some vocalists. He loves the big bass ("man it looks so cool"), even though the EB would be more appropriate most of the time. I have tried several piezo pickups with varying degrees of success, but I always end up missing the sustain I would get with electric. A mic helps, but generally things get too loud and/or effect laden for it to do much good.

I get the call this week to do an outdoor thing in a big pavilion with no walls. I had just bought a pickup from another Talkbasser (jflojazz) that claimed to be wound to be slightly microphonic and humbucking that was reasonably inexpensive and didn't look too bad. I took my two Bergie EX112's and Focus 2R and through in my Fishman Platinum preamp just in case. I thought I would run my atm35 through the mains and the Mag pickup through my ministack. However, once we got it goin, I just reversed the phase, dialed out a little 200hz, took a DI out of the Focus, and left the mic in the case. It sounded great and the sound guy just kept beaming at me.

Are there any other closet (or out of closet) Magnetic folks lurking here? I would be interested in hearing about what you are doing.

fdeck · #2 07-23-2006, 05:00 PM

Last night, I played my umpteenth gig with a magnetic pup. It was a big-band playing swing era stuff. I was playing at a volume level that would exceed the feedback threshold of any piezo. There was no PA support or space on stage to explore speaker placement options or other tricks for controlling feedback.

By and large, I get nothing but compliments about my sound. My guess is that having a sound that "works" is more important than utterly authentic tone. In my opinion, you still capture the essence of the upright bass sound, and of course all of your knowledge and style as an upright player.

Also, sound guys love the magnetic. Maybe it's because they are all reasonably experienced with electric bass, and the mag pup works better with their techniques.

Mine is homemade, four rare earth magnets and little coils pulled out of surplus stepping motors.

Of course I try to get a good piezo tone, and it is the preferred choice under ideal conditions. But the magnetic pup always goes along for the ride because I can trust it to deliver a workable tone in any situation.

Joe Smithberger · #3 07-23-2006, 05:09 PM

I am really pumped about it. I ended up using the Fishman preamp to sculpt the midrange a little bit, but I thought it sounded great. It was fantastic to be able to play in the middle positions and still be articulate. I never could do that with a piezo. Obviously others can, but with my limited technique it is a nice compromise.

SBassman · #4 07-23-2006, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Smithberger

Call me a hack, but I just did my first gig with a magnetic pickup...and liked it. I know, I know, it doesn't sound like "my bass only louder" but who cares.

For the past couple of years, I have played on and off with a group doing rock, country, gospel and blues Christian music in all kind of strange venues ranging from coffee houses to 2000 seat theaters. The main guy is a singer/songwriter type that likes to play acoustic guitar with effects. Usually we have drums (mostly Edrums) and another guitar or keyboard and some vocalists. He loves the big bass ("man it looks so cool"), even though the EB would be more appropriate most of the time. I have tried several piezo pickups with varying degrees of success, but I always end up missing the sustain I would get with electric. A mic helps, but generally things get too loud and/or effect laden for it to do much good.

I get the call this week to do an outdoor thing in a big pavilion with no walls. I had just bought a pickup from another Talkbasser (jflojazz) that claimed to be wound to be slightly microphonic and humbucking that was reasonably inexpensive and didn't look too bad. I took my two Bergie EX112's and Focus 2R and through in my Fishman Platinum preamp just in case. I thought I would run my atm35 through the mains and the Mag pickup through my ministack. However, once we got it goin, I just reversed the phase, dialed out a little 200hz, took a DI out of the Focus, and left the mic in the case. It sounded great and the sound guy just kept beaming at me.

Are there any other closet (or out of closet) Magnetic folks lurking here? I would be interested in hearing about what you are doing.

If you haven't done so yet, you should tell jflo. I'm sure he'll be very excited to hear this real-world use of his pickup.

shwashwa · #5 07-23-2006, 05:42 PM

i blend a magnetic with a piezo. on my bass, for some reason when amplified, the volume gets quiter as you go up the g string, although it doesnt happen acoustically... i cant figure it out. after pulling my hair out for years, i finally just slapped a magnetic on that i set up to be closer to the g string than the other strings. now the piezo does most of the work, but as i work up the g string, the magnetic takes over more and more because as you work up the neck it gets closer and closer to the pickup. seems to work for me. there's not a noticeable change in tone either i think because the piezo is still doing some work too. i pretty much cut all the treble and mid out of the magnetic and just use the low end. to me, this seems to make it sound more "natural"...

jtlownds · #6 07-23-2006, 06:49 PM

I have an old laminated Meisel with a Schaller magnetic pickup on it that I use for my outdoor gigs and rediculously loud indoor gigs. I usually run it thru an SWR California Blonde. This rig has served me well for the last 12 - 13 years, and the sound guys just rave about the tone. It's not the sound of my bass only louder, but it really doesn't sound like a slab either.

Joe Smithberger · #7 07-23-2006, 08:47 PM

Sounds like similar experiences to my own. In fact I think it was a shwashwa post that got me thinking about it in the first place. Next time I have a quieter setting, I'll play around with the mic or blending in a piezo. The thing is, it didn't sound so far off as is. Is is closer to my practice at home tone than I've ever got before in a group setting. You know that great sound when you don't hear anything else and your not pulling that hard and the notes sustain as long as you want them to...

BTW I posted a rave on the DIY magnetic thread also so jflo would see it. I think he uses these regularly himself and probably has a good idea what they sound like.

fdeck · #8 07-23-2006, 09:34 PM

I played with blending once, and found that I made a mistake in that my pickup is humbucking, but I only reversed the coils and not the magnets on alternating strings. As a result, I got phase cancellation on alternating strings. Oops.

But I am gradually assembling the pieces for a new pickup, and it will be set up correctly this time.

Also, another amusing story, I tried out some nylon strings, and got them all installed before trying the pickup. The G was utterly dead, I mean stone dead. Turns out that the G was wound with aluminum instead of steel. Of course I had already installed the strings, so I could not get my money back. Oops.

fdeck · #9 07-23-2006, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shwashwa

i blend a magnetic with a piezo. on my bass, for some reason when amplified, the volume gets quiter as you go up the g string, although it doesnt happen acoustically... i cant figure it out. after pulling my hair out for years, i finally just slapped a magnetic on that i set up to be closer to the g string than the other strings. now the piezo does most of the work, but as i work up the g string, the magnetic takes over more and more because as you work up the neck it gets closer and closer to the pickup. seems to work for me. there's not a noticeable change in tone either i think because the piezo is still doing some work too. i pretty much cut all the treble and mid out of the magnetic and just use the low end. to me, this seems to make it sound more "natural"...

Using the magnetic on the lows might also turn out to be a clever way to avoid feedback. Food for thought.

shwashwa · #10 07-23-2006, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fdeck

Using the magnetic on the lows might also turn out to be a clever way to avoid feedback. Food for thought.

interesting...

i've never really had a feedback problem, but i'll experiment with cutting some of the lows from the piezo and see what it sounds like...the high pass filter on the fishman should do the trick..

Joe Smithberger · #11 07-24-2006, 10:41 AM

What kind of strings are you guys using with these pickups? I have a set of Superflexibles on with a Spiro Stark E. The Stark E is great acoustically, but seemed a little blurry and boomy sounding with this pickup. I'm sure it was because of the extra heavy gage. I am putting on an Orch E I had laying around but I am due to replace the set.

shwashwa · #12 07-24-2006, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Smithberger

What kind of strings are you guys using with these pickups? I have a set of Superflexibles on with a Spiro Stark E. The Stark E is great acoustically, but seemed a little blurry and boomy sounding with this pickup. I'm sure it was because of the extra heavy gage. I am putting on an Orch E I had laying around but I am due to replace the set.

i use corelli. they have enough metal content for the magnetic pickup

jtlownds · #13 07-24-2006, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Smithberger

What kind of strings are you guys using with these pickups? I have a set of Superflexibles on with a Spiro Stark E. The Stark E is great acoustically, but seemed a little blurry and boomy sounding with this pickup. I'm sure it was because of the extra heavy gage. I am putting on an Orch E I had laying around but I am due to replace the set.

Using Spirocore Weichs on mine.

Bodin · #14 07-24-2006, 11:41 AM

The progressive jazz band I'm in can get loud, esp if we are at a venue where the sound guy is used to rock bands. And I spent a year doing everything I could to get several different piezos to work without feeding back. Sometimes it would be OK - but always just on the verge, and other times it would be a nightmare.

So I just gave in and now I use a String Charger that has a magnetic pickup plus a piezo and I'm pretty satisfied with it. I've used it for about 2 years now and don't mind the sound. For me its worth not having to worry about being able to turn up enough to hear myself without feedback.

Joe Smithberger · #15 07-24-2006, 02:08 PM

Which piezo are you using with the Stringcharger?

What do the silk ends look like on Corelli's? I think I have a set of TX's that weren't on very long laying around in a plastic bag - black on both ends with a red band on the ball end?

fdeck · #16 07-24-2006, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Smithberger

What kind of strings are you guys using with these pickups? I have a set of Superflexibles on with a Spiro Stark E. The Stark E is great acoustically, but seemed a little blurry and boomy sounding with this pickup. I'm sure it was because of the extra heavy gage. I am putting on an Orch E I had laying around but I am due to replace the set.

Spirocore Mittels, but I also had fine results with Superflexibles.

shwashwa · #17 07-24-2006, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Smithberger

Which piezo are you using with the Stringcharger?

What do the silk ends look like on Corelli's? I think I have a set of TX's that weren't on very long laying around in a plastic bag - black on both ends with a red band on the ball end?

i'll have to check my correlli's but that sounds right. with the string charger on one bass i'm using a shadow underwood copy, and on the other i'm using the barbera. i use the string charger with both, and both benefit from it.

Bodin · #18 07-24-2006, 08:27 PM

The string charger version that I have has a bridge slot piezo built in, but there is no control of how much of each signal goes out - and it seems to be more of the magnetic pickup signal than piezo. And I also have a K&K Bass Max piezo in the other bridge slot.

Shwashwa, what do you use to blend your two signals?

shwashwa · #19 07-24-2006, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bodin

Shwashwa, what do you use to blend your two signals?

well, i used to use a raven labs, but i dont like it so much. now i use a combination of preamps into an ART passive 4 channel mixer into my amp.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...3&src=3SOSWXXA

the preamps i use are any combination of the sansamp para driver, the fishman platinum, the avalon u5 or, even the raven sometimes...
i wouldnt plug a pickup directly into the mixer because of impedance mismatch.

i keep the volumes on 10 and just use it to combine the signals. i control the mix from the volumes on each preamp.