Double Bass + Amp

Maleikbassist · #1 03-09-2013, 09:46 AM

I play upright bass in my school's jazz band and lately I've been bothered by the amount of maintenance it takes to get a good sound while also avoiding feedback. I need to be able to hit a higher volume than I've been lately without feeding back and loosing good tone color. I'm mostly trying to get an exact tone replication on the amp. I've got a gig in Disneyland on Tuesday and I'd like to be able to head down there and have a great sound. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Just in case this may help, I've got a Cremona SB-2 with an Underwood Bass Pickup running into a Gallien-Krueger 700RB-II + GK 410 cab.

Thanks

seang15 · #2 03-09-2013, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maleikbassist

I play upright bass in my school's jazz band and lately I've been bothered by the amount of maintenance it takes to get a good sound while also avoiding feedback. I need to be able to hit a higher volume than I've been lately without feeding back and loosing good tone color. I'm mostly trying to get an exact tone replication on the amp. I've got a gig in Disneyland on Tuesday and I'd like to be able to head down there and have a great sound. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Just in case this may help, I've got a Cremona SB-2 with an Underwood Bass Pickup running into a Gallien-Krueger 700RB-II + GK 410 cab.

Thanks

Definitely get Fdeck's HPF to help control the feedback. Does not color the sound. Search TB, it's extremely well documented.

Stick_Player · #3 03-09-2013, 10:19 AM

Your rig is certainly MORE than enough.

You could probably use some device that can notch out troublesome feedback frequencies - a notch filter, of some sort. Speaker placement can also be effective.

Amplifying a DB well can be costly. The best sound will come from a mic, not a pickup.

You may try an electric upright (EUB). You'll be able to play as loud as you want. Won't sound like a DB, but you'll be heard.

I'm using a Realist and a DPA 4099 (needs phantom power) into a Headway EDB-1 (has two separate input channels). I can mix the piezo and mic. The EDB-1 is then plugged into a Phil Jones Super Flightcase. The EDB-1 is loaded with EQ, notch filter, voicing, etc.

Great control!

I have found that having the amp NOT behind or pointing at the DB can help. The PJ Super Flightcase has four speakers facing forward, and two facing upward. I actually raise the amp off the floor, place it on its side with the two speakers pointing in my general direction, the other four outward (maybe toward the drummer).

Also, if you can run a line to the house system (if there is one), that will help.

I also have an EUB for those really loud gigs.

fdeck · #4 03-09-2013, 11:47 AM

Given the time crunch, you might have to do what you can with the gear that you've got. A couple of ideas:

I love my GK amps, but they tend to have "scooped" voicing, meaning that the low end is boosted a lot when the EQ knobs are all centered. Short of inserting a high pass filter (HPF), you could crank down the lows, and turn up the mids, to get more audible sound with less mud. Also, make sure any kind of "contour" or "voicing" knob is turned all the way down.

4x10 cabs tend to be directional, producing a "beam" of sound. Get your bass out of that beam. I find having my amp to the right of me and not pointing towards my bass is the placement that has the best chance of working most of the time.

Maleikbassist · #5 03-09-2013, 12:03 PM

Thank you all for inquiring! One thing I forgot to mention is that I noticed that the feedback is noticibly more common when I stand away from the amp as opposed to when I stand with the bass in front of the amp. Also, as far as anything goes with getting a new pickup/mic, this rig actually belongs to my band teacher, I just have the righteous privilege of playing it. My whole thing is that I want some EQ guide or some home remedy I could do to prevent it. One other thing I was trying to do was kind of eliminate the sound of my plucking on the strings

Stick_Player · #6 03-09-2013, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maleikbassist

... I noticed that the feedback is noticibly more common when I stand away from the amp as opposed to when I stand with the bass in front of the amp.

Do you ALWAYS play in the same room with this set up? Is the amp always in the same location?

Can you try other rooms?

**MostlyBass** · #7 03-09-2013, 07:20 PM

Stick a racquetball between the tailpiece and top.

Maleikbassist · #8 03-09-2013, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stick_Player

Do you ALWAYS play in the same room with this set up? Is the amp always in the same location?

Can you try other rooms?

I play in the same room most of the time, occassionally we'll have a performance in our school's auditorium. Or like in a few days I'll be performing on the stage at California Adventure in Anaheim.

As far as the main playing room goes, My amp will sit just a ways away from the wall, the wall on the other side of the room is 30-40 feet away and the other side walls are about 20 feet to each side.

Rodger Bryan · #9 03-09-2013, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seang15

Definitely get Fdeck's HPF to help control the feedback. Does not color the sound. Search TB, it's extremely well documented.

The FDeck HPF pre will help in three ways:
1. It will take care of the high impedance of the pickup- the result will be a better balance of lows to highs, greatly reducing finger+string noise.
2. The high pass filter will allow you to control boominess, especially at higher volumes
3. The ability to flip the phase/polarity should help with the feedback problem you're experiencing when changing your proximity to the amp.

Go to FDeck's page for a better description of what this widget can do. I think it is your ticket to a better balanced and controllable sound.
R

Maleikbassist · #10 03-09-2013, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MostlyBass

Stick a racquetball between the tailpiece and top.

What do you mean by the top? Like under the strings past the nut? And as for the one under the tailpiece, just wedge it til it's snug? I'm assuming this is to deaden some of the vibrations on the face as well as eliminate tailpiece vibrations?

Jazzdogg · #11 03-09-2013, 07:58 PM

Another vote for FDeck's HPF/Pre. I have a series II and a series III, and they're both great; I never gig without one, whether playing DB or 5-string electric.

If you're going to be a double bassist, I strongly recommend you invest in an HPF/Pre for yourself.

MY DB is plugged in to my HPFPre, and thence to a Fishman Dual Parametric DI, which provides two channels of parametric EQ, each of which can be switched in or out of the signal path individually, and a DI.

With only these two components, I can amplify my DB in practically any venue without worrying, whether going direct to FOH or a recording console, driving rented backline, or using my own amp and cabs.

When I'm in a challenging venue, the first thing I pay attention to is cab placement with respect to boundary reinforcement/nulls and proximity to my bass. After dealing with cab placement, the first electronic component I adjust is the HPF/Pre.

Good luck!

Maleikbassist · #12 03-09-2013, 08:07 PM

Hmm, I that fDeck seems more interesting. Is that company pretty lenient with buying and trying? I'm probably going to talk to my teacher to see if he would want to invenst in it, seems he'll buy anything for the rest of my section, hell he just bought them a brand new Pearl Masters set. But I wouldn't want to have him buy it, then end up that I/he didn't like the way it sounded. Will they accept returns?

GrowlerBox · #13 03-09-2013, 08:26 PM

They're designed and built by Francis Deck (TB name fdeck) who has posted here in your thread (with some very good advice, I might add). He provides the design for free if you'd like to make one for yourself, or builds them for a very reasonable price -- much lower than it should be, if cost were determined by utility. I can safely say, it would be the single most useful investment you could make in your amplified sound, especially if using borrowed gear. I feel it will make pretty much any bass amp usable for DB, and will extract the best performance possible from your rig.

Greg Clinkingbeard · #14 03-09-2013, 08:41 PM

You've gotten some great advice already. Although there isn't time to get Fdeck's HPF by Tuesday, definitely get it because it cures a lot of ills. Put something behind the tailpiece; a rubber ball or rolled up towel. Remember that you and the bass are bigger factors in your amplified sound than any amplifier so keep it in perspective. When you get the itch to upgrade something choose the bass rather than the amp.

Maleikbassist · #15 03-10-2013, 03:33 AM

Thank you all for the great advice! And when I use something to dampen the sound, could I use a tennis ball?

Scotty DelMar · #16 03-10-2013, 03:51 AM

Tennis ball, small nerf football, chunk of foam, old Slayer tee shirt, etc. , etc.

Maleikbassist · #17 03-10-2013, 03:57 AM

Hmm, I'll try that out on my Monday rehearsal before I head off to Disneyland to perform. I hope to see some good results, I'll also talk my band teacher about investing in an FDeck

contrabart · #18 03-10-2013, 02:35 PM

Why do need a higher volume? (This as a question, not criticism.) Of course you are responsible for your own sound, and have to make sure you can be heard. But if that means compromising your sound it also becomes the responsibility of the people you play with. If they want to play with a double bass, they need to understand it has its limits. They can play softer too. Amplifying as little as possible will also force you to develop your acoustic sound, and volume.

Maleikbassist · #19 03-10-2013, 04:03 PM

I need more volume because of the need to fill in more space, cause there'll be sections in songs that need to be bigger and they end up not as good sounding due to a lack on my part

Stick_Player · #20 03-10-2013, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maleikbassist

I need more volume because of the need to fill in more space, cause there'll be sections in songs that need to be bigger and they end up not as good sounding due to a lack on my part

Might be time to get out the ol' slab and crank it up.