Double Bass Feedback

kipperwig · #1 03-31-2010, 08:39 AM

Hi, I've recently started playing double bass, having been and electric player for around 5 years. So far i've been playing acoustic gigs (bass and piano, or bass and acoustic guitars) and it's not been a problem to amplify the bass, Usually DI'ed to the PA using Markbass LMII as a preamp.
My bass is a 1960's german (i think) laminate with pirastro jazzer strings and a Shadow SH950 pickup.

I've just joined a band where i'm going to have to play at a much louder volume to compete with a kit and 2 electric guitars. I also want to use some distortion. I know this is asking for trouble, but i've seen it done, so it's possible.

I had first rehearsal with the band a few days ago, and was really struggling to get the volume without feedback.I could achieve around the same volume with clean and distorted sound. The distorted sound would squeal as soon as i stopped playing, but a gate mostly sorted that out.
I was playing through a small kickback type amp(i cant remember what it was) and by the time id got maximum volume, by adjusting the eq on that, the tone was awful, and the rest of the band still had to play considerably quieter for me to be heard.
I taped the F holes up with some gaffa, that helped a bit.
another thing i noticed is that the bass was resonating a lot with the drums, so the kick and snare would set off feedback.
My amp is a LMII and markbass traveler 2x10 cab, though i will be mostly playing DI'ed or through whatever amps will be at gigs, as i don't have a car so can take everything to gigs.

A few options i think i can try are;

use a preamp, e.g. fishman platinum eq. (the phase reverse option being very helpful from what i understand)

Try a magnetic pickup

EQ. - 31 band graphic or a decent parametric, or a feedback destroyer.

Fitting a second sound post, though i don't really want to compromise the acoustic sound of the bass if possible.

Which of these options, ( or any other ideas) would you try first?
I've also read that dampening the strings between the bridge and tailpiece can help, so I'll try that when i get hold of some foam.

I know this is a problem thats going to take some time and experimenting to solve, and that theres no easy answer, but i would be very grateful for any advice you can offer.

cheers, Rob.

Michael Eisenman · #2 03-31-2010, 09:37 AM

Try Uncle Toad's suggestions.

Hope this helps,
Michael

Bass · #3 03-31-2010, 10:07 AM

Also check out Chris Rhoade's "guide to not feeding back" on Rockabillybass.com.

Ric Vice · #4 03-31-2010, 06:03 PM

Uncle Toad's rules of the road pretty much cover all the things you can to to tame the feedback monster. Since you are using the LMK II there is one other thing that might be useful. Try turning off both the VLE and VPF controls entirely, since that defeats their function, and see if that helps at all. Then you could gradually turn up the VLE to see what effect that has on the feedback. Used sparingly, it might cut the offending high frequencies, but it might give you the wrong EQ so you'll just have to experiment a little.

Ric

shadow_FIX · #5 03-31-2010, 06:12 PM

I have the LMIII, and I had trouble with this on my first gig I used an upright on with it. My issue was that my pickup (Realist) has a fairly high output signal, so turning the Gain down and Master up solved this problem for me...hope this helps!

TimmyP · #6 03-31-2010, 09:39 PM

Good suggestions on both those links.

In some situations, one still ends up needing an EQ. Although easy to use, a 31 band takes out pretty big slices. For the best result, you need a parametric. A used Rane PE15 or PE17 would be affordable ways to go. Or a PEQ55 if you want to spend some bucks (I know where you can get one

).

Les Fret · #7 04-01-2010, 01:15 AM

Hi, welcome to the world of DB feedback. I think we all struggle with this at some point. I haven't find a good solution yet and I have tried many things.

My luthier always says: the better the acoustic sound of the bass the worse the feedback will be. So you might be better of buying a cheaper plywood bass for loud gigs and keep your other bass for less loud situations. You might even have to cover your f-holes.

TomB · #8 04-01-2010, 01:46 AM

Mag pickups are the ultimate solution if you grow weary of the battle. True, they make your prized possession sound like an oversized P-bass, but in those situations where I've resorted to it, the volume is high enough that the subtleties of a fine upright sound are pretty much lost in the mix anyway. There's a lot to be said for the mental freedom of not even having to think about the issue. I've owned a Piere Josephs for about 10 years. Though I haven't needed it often, it's served very well when needed. Keep in mind that it requires steel-cored strings to work.

Ric Vice · #9 04-01-2010, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Les Fret

Hi, welcome to the world of DB feedback. I think we all struggle with this at some point. I haven't find a good solution yet and I have tried many things.

My luthier always says: the better the acoustic sound of the bass the worse the feedback will be. So you might be better of buying a cheaper plywood bass for loud gigs and keep your other bass for less loud situations. You might even have to cover your f-holes.

My French Mirecourt Bass has a hardwood laminate flatback with maple sides and a spruce top. It will feedback pretty quickly so I guess the fully laminate instruments are less prone, but at least in my case a partial laminate bass is just as likely to feedback. Probably has more to do with the actually acoustic sound so your luthier is right.

Ric

kipperwig · #10 04-01-2010, 11:40 AM

Thanks for all the advice, I can't seem to find any Rane parametrics anywhere (im in the UK). has anybody had any experience with the PreSonus EQ3B? is a 3 band enough, or would i need 5?

nealw · #11 04-01-2010, 04:28 PM

I played in a loud rockabilly band for years. I found the phase reverse switch to be THE most effective anti-feedback tool, followed closely by the para-eq. My chain before the amp was Underwood pickup, Fishman ProEQ 2 (didn't find it useful for eq, but ideal for impedence matching and phase-reverse), Carl Martin semi-para eq pedal. The Carl Martin doesn't let you adjust q, just frequency and level, but seemed to have a narrow enough q to let me dial out the offending frequency without killing the tone. I generally just needed one notch (and didn't always need that) at around 110-120 hz, so I never needed more than 3 bands, but of course your bass & pickup will likely be totally different. I never used any padding or tape and easily kept up with loud drums & guitar...although i was running 300 watts into an 8x10 + horn.