DPA 4099 vs AMT SP25B

[Barcza]

Originally Posted by shwashwa

no comments on my crazy contraption? im moving the mic all over the bass now. trying out every possible spot. i couldnt do this before and it feels totally secure. before in some positions it felt like it could come off at any minute. i dont have to torque the gooseneck so much anymore either.

I don't think is worth to complicate the setup that much. I don't notice any noticeable difference in the sound if I move the mic by 5 cm.

[Barcza]

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

I see why you would say this, but it's one of the features I love about the Focus 2 (III). I find that the HP on the mic channel helps get more usable volume, whereas the HP on the pickup shapes the tone more. In either case, the gents at DPA would do well to put a switch on the thing like many much cheaper mics have.



I don't have the 4099 yet, so I'll reserve comment until I have one to try. I'd probably try to find the magic spot with the 4099 mounting gear, but then if that didn't happen I'd experiment with what you mentioned since I have an H clamp as well. Glad it's working for you!

I pretty sure it's possible to find a right position with the guitar mount.

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

I see why you would say this, but it's one of the features I love about the Focus 2 (III). I find that the HP on the mic channel helps get more usable volume, whereas the HP on the pickup shapes the tone more. In either case, the gents at DPA would do well to put a switch on the thing like many much cheaper mics have.

Agreed on all counts.

[jrlynch]

keep in mind that the mic does "suffer" from proximity effect, so if you want more lows, just move it a bit closer.

jeff.

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

Even with that Headway the high pass is after the summed signals of both mic and pickup. I'd still run that mic full range and roll after the summed input. That cut starts way up in the 250hz range middle of the fingerboard on the G string. I see little advantage to having separate high pass for both input signals. I don't mind having it, but I could live without it. The only other issue with that Headway is you can't work phase with either line or mic depending on what you need, just the mic.

[shwashwa]

Originally Posted by Barcza

I don't think is worth to complicate the setup that much. I don't notice any noticeable difference in the sound if I move the mic by 5 cm.

its just a mic in a mic stand after all. not very complicated. and on the contrary, i notice a huge difference in the sound with a move of as little as 5cm, but the h clamp lets me move it much further than 5 cm if i want. there is also a huge difference ins sound depending on the distance from the bass and on the angle that the mic is at relative to the top.

[Barcza]

Originally Posted by shwashwa

its just a mic in a mic stand after all. not very complicated. and on the contrary, i notice a huge difference in the sound with a move of as little as 5cm, but the h clamp lets me move it much further than 5 cm if i want. there is also a huge difference ins sound depending on the distance from the bass and on the angle that the mic is at relative to the top.

You shared a photo with your favorite spot with the H-Clamp, but I pretty sure I can reach the same spot with the guitar mount.

[shwashwa]

Originally Posted by Barcza

You shared a photo with your favorite spot with the H-Clamp, but I pretty sure I can reach the same spot with the guitar mount.

well that was my favorite spot at that time... now im able to try any position on the bass that i want and im still experimenting, and i have a feeling that on my other basses the spot might be different. the main drawback for me with the dpa's mounting system is that many times it felt as if it were going to fall off. or if i needed to adjust the gooseneck then it would indeed come off in my hand, or it would pick up the vibration of whatever it was attached to. im glad its working for you, but right from the start i didnt like the mounting system. the bass is much bigger than guitar or violin so i figured i needed to be able to access more positions on my much larger instrument, but it just wasnt possible. i just posted my contraption as just another option for those interested. i feel the advantages of it are a very secure mount, very easily moveable, and totally isolated from the vibrations of the bass with the foam that i use in the pic. i have been doing alot of recording with the mic too, and many times what sounds one way through the amp sounds another way on recording. it was through the recording process that i really noticed the unwanted vibrations being picked up. i didnt really notice them through the amp, but after i knew that they were there, it was much easier for me to hear them all the time. not terrible, but unacceptable for me. anyway, i figured that if i wanted the best sound possible then i would have to isolate it from the instrument better. with this setup i wouldnt hesitate going into the recording studio with this mic, with perhaps another mic out front some distance from the bass for an overall sound.

[Uncletoad]

Yea, the mounting has looked suspect to me all along. Fine for guitar or violin. Not so good for DB yet.

[Barcza]

Yes, of course the mount is not build for bass, I can't say is perfect, but way better than the clip of the ATM 350, wich used many by many players.

[Monte]

Originally Posted by shwashwa

well that was my favorite spot at that time... now im able to try any position on the bass that i want and im still experimenting, and i have a feeling that on my other basses the spot might be different. the main drawback for me with the dpa's mounting system is that many times it felt as if it were going to fall off. or if i needed to adjust the gooseneck then it would indeed come off in my hand, or it would pick up the vibration of whatever it was attached to. im glad its working for you, but right from the start i didnt like the mounting system. the bass is much bigger than guitar or violin so i figured i needed to be able to access more positions on my much larger instrument, but it just wasnt possible. i just posted my contraption as just another option for those interested. i feel the advantages of it are a very secure mount, very easily moveable, and totally isolated from the vibrations of the bass with the foam that i use in the pic. i have been doing alot of recording with the mic too, and many times what sounds one way through the amp sounds another way on recording. it was through the recording process that i really noticed the unwanted vibrations being picked up. i didnt really notice them through the amp, but after i knew that they were there, it was much easier for me to hear them all the time. not terrible, but unacceptable for me. anyway, i figured that if i wanted the best sound possible then i would have to isolate it from the instrument better. with this setup i wouldnt hesitate going into the recording studio with this mic, with perhaps another mic out front some distance from the bass for an overall sound.

Very happy to see this. I'm much more inclined to look at this now that I see it can work with the H-Clamp.

FYI, for whoever it was that dismissed the H-Clamp because you like leaving the DPA on the bass....no reason you can't leave the H Clamp on the bass as well.

Steve, can you explain how you attached the DPA to the H Clamp? From the photo it looks like you just wrapped it in foam and fastened the DPA's gooseneck to the shaft of the H Clamp.

[shwashwa]

Originally Posted by Monte

Very happy to see this. I'm much more inclined to look at this now that I see it can work with the H-Clamp.

FYI, for whoever it was that dismissed the H-Clamp because you like leaving the DPA on the bass....no reason you can't leave the H Clamp on the bass as well.

Steve, can you explain how you attached the DPA to the H Clamp? From the photo it looks like you just wrapped it in foam and fastened the DPA's gooseneck to the shaft of the H Clamp.

that's pretty much it except that i didnt tie the gooseneck down, i actually tied it to the mounting clamp of the dpa so the entire gooseneck is free to move and be adjustable. im currently using rubber bands but may switch to something else in the future.
and how did you know my name was steve?? :-)

[Monte]

Originally Posted by shwashwa

that's pretty much it except that i didnt tie the gooseneck down, i actually tied it to the mounting clamp of the dpa so the entire gooseneck is free to move and be adjustable. im currently using rubber bands but may switch to something else in the future.
and how did you know my name was steve?? :-)

Good memory, and I've checked out your stuff before!

[shwashwa]

Originally Posted by Monte

Good memory, and I've checked out your stuff before!

awesome! hope you liked it

[Barcza]

Originally Posted by jrlynch

keep in mind that the mic does "suffer" from proximity effect, so if you want more lows, just move it a bit closer.

jeff.

I see, but the proximity effect can recover the lost lows what the built in HP make?

[jrlynch]

finally had some time to play with positioning a bit, with just a pair of good headphones and the requisite ears. for my bass i keep coming back to here. it helps to have some distance between the table and the mic, around an inch or two or so ... obviously in a live situation that might just not be possible, but that sounds the best, with a bit of "air" around things.

a second location that sounds sweet, but not terribly friendly to mounting, is above the bridge between the top of the f holes. it's a more sterile, but more articulate sound.

what doesn't sound good is anything south of the f holes ... just empty there. that said there aren't a whole lot of places you can't get a serviceable sound.

one last thought on the HPF thing: at some point i'd like to get ahold of the flat version just to hear for myself, but for live work i do think there's some advantage to idiot proofing things for sound men who's default mode is to pump bass into subs ...

jeff.

[Vunz]

Originally Posted by jrlynch

one last thought on the HPF thing: at some point i'd like to get ahold of the flat version just to hear for myself, but for live work i do think there's some advantage to idiot proofing things for sound men who's default mode is to pump bass into subs ...

jeff.

Next week I will visit a local DPA dealer who has the 4099 for violin and guitar in stock, as well as DPA xlr adapters with and without the high pass filter. I will bring my bass and amp system, and together with the Dutch DPA importer we will conduct some experiments. I will report on the results of this experiment. As a reference, I use my Neumann KM 185 on a H-clamp.

Cheers,
Vincent

[Barcza]

Originally Posted by jrlynch

one last thought on the HPF thing: at some point i'd like to get ahold of the flat version just to hear for myself, but for live work i do think there's some advantage to idiot proofing things for sound men who's default mode is to pump bass into subs ...

jeff.

I think the idiot proofing may be enough below 40HZ or 50HZ, I don't want to emasculate the sound if don't needed. Of course in a hard acoustical environment, sometime must to cut below 100hz, thats why a switch would be fine, but the best if you have a good sound men, and in the mixer there's an adjustable freq hi-pass. Anyway, I borrowed an 6001 adapter, and a good RME soundcard I will make records with both of the adapter, and go the the gig to try the sound in PA. I will report!

[Ric Vice]

Originally Posted by Barcza

I think the idiot proofing may be enough below 40HZ or 50HZ, I don't want to emasculate the sound if don't needed. Of course in a hard acoustical environment, sometime must to cut below 100hz, thats why a switch would be fine, but the best if you have a good sound men, and in the mixer there's an adjustable freq hi-pass. Anyway, I borrowed an 6001 adapter, and a good RME soundcard I will make records with both of the adapter, and go the the gig to try the sound in PA. I will report!

Unfortunately, several halls that I play in are so boomy I have to resort to wiping out the frequencies below 80. So in those instances the Hi Pass would work fine. But most of the other venues are just fine without it and I don't like to compromise the lows unless it's absolutely necessary. I have two concerts this weekend where I intend to use the Headway EDB-1 in conjunction with the DPA 4099. I just have to get the mounting squared away. I played around with it at home last weekend and it sounded great. That mic is so quite that I wasn't sure it was on until I tapped on the bass. Amazing!

Ric

[Barcza]

Originally Posted by Ric Vice

Unfortunately, several halls that I play in are so boomy I have to resort to wiping out the frequencies below 80. So in those instances the Hi Pass would work fine. But most of the other venues are just fine without it and I don't like to compromise the lows unless it's absolutely necessary. I have two concerts this weekend where I intend to use the Headway EDB-1 in conjunction with the DPA 4099. I just have to get the mounting squared away. I played around with it at home last weekend and it sounded great. That mic is so quite that I wasn't sure it was on until I tapped on the bass. Amazing!

Ric

I absolutely agree, many times the hi-pass needed, but I like to start from flat and than decide how much low cut I need for the room. Otherwise the mic is amazing.

[larry]

Oops - I tried to upload a sound clip of my 4099. Didn't happen. Let me figure out why and get back.

I did not notice my account switched back to "registered user". I need to donate some money to get my upload ability back. I'll sort it out tomorrow -