In ear monitoring?

[eric.damstra]

Dear Bass brothers,

I'm playing upright in a jazz trio with acoustic guitar and sax/vocals. We're considering to use an in-ear system. We experimented a little and the results were good exept for the bass. I use a sony MDR-EX71SL earphones. These earphones are superb for my I-pod but can't deliver the bass that I need for comfortable monitoring.

Anyone experience with this? Will some compression on the bass help?

I'm also considering a wireless set to get more freedom in movement. Anyone?

[Wil Davis]

It might be a stupid question, but why do you need to monitor with only an acoustic trio? Can you not hear your bass? After all, you're standing right next to it… You could always ask the other players to play quieter, or you could stand closer together…

- Wil

[eric.damstra]

Our saxophone player plays too hard for the rest, he needs to blow hard to get a good tone.
Also it's hard to intonate when I can't hear the guitarist playing.
And my (plywood) bass doesn't put out that much volume.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

[hdiddy]

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

It doesn't hurt to have VL208 but raising the cab off the ground definitely helps, especially when it's like how FITZGEARHEAD has it practically at his ears.

[eric.damstra]

Wow, you put that in your ear!

We want to avoid lugging and enjoy playing.....

[hdiddy]

Originally Posted by eric.damstra

Wow, you put that in your ear!

Yeah, he has some real earwax problems. This gets those stubborn clusters out!

[junglebike]

I'm all for in-ear monitoring if you're playing upright in a rock band and have lots of $$$, but you really don't need it for what you're doing. In-ears are really for eliminating monitor-related feedback and sound quality issues, neither of which are an issue with an acoustic trio. If you can't hear the bass, and your speakers are placed right, the audience can't either! I'll third the recommendation to elevate your cab, or even just tilt it up.

[eric.damstra]

Originally Posted by junglebike

In-ears are really for eliminating monitor-related feedback and sound quality issues

That's exactly what where after. Using mics instead of piezo and have an amplified acoustic sound.

And it's even cheaper then having an good quality backline. Using in ears gives us the ability to create a good monitoring system with just a small mixer an a headphone amp.

Mayby this is the wrong place to ask this question, nobody wants to show pictures of earphones.

[junglebike]

Ohhhh... you're using mics.... I get it. I assume you've got a good set of mains that can handle your bass?

In that case, I'd recommend the Shure stuff; I have a set of e3's that work really well. They make wireless receiver/transmitters that are designed for just that. Most importantly, they have built in limiters, which you NEED, as you can do serious damage to your ears quickly with in-ears (e.g. if somebody unplugs something and makes a POP, or you get feedback from the mains, etc.)

Consider adding an ambient/crowd mic to the mix to avoid that weird in-ear isolated feeling.

[eric.damstra]

Thanx junglebike!

I'll try those e3's. I assume it will handle bass better then "consumer" earphones.

I can get a Garwood wireless for a reasanable price, anyone experience with that brand?

[larry]

Originally Posted by eric.damstra

That's exactly what where after. Using mics instead of piezo and have an amplified acoustic sound.

And it's even cheaper then having an good quality backline. Using in ears gives us the ability to create a good monitoring system with just a small mixer an a headphone amp.

Mayby this is the wrong place to ask this question, nobody wants to show pictures of earphones.

I'll wager that the problem is too much bleed from the other instruments mushing up the sound of the bass in your monitor.

If there is a way to run a pickup into the monitor without going to the main, I'd try it. Otherwise, you may have to screw around with the mics. What are you using?

[eric.damstra]

I'm using a DPA 4060 attached to the bridge. It's an omni and gives a well ballanced sound. I tried many microphones but for me this is the most natural sounding. I want the mic to be attached to my bass so the sound doesn't change when I move the instrument. I tried several cardiod and hyper cardiod's placed with rubber bands between the bridge, but that didn't do it for me. But it's all very personal.

Up till now I used a highlander IP1 built into my bridge for the monitoring/backline and the DPA to the P.A. But I really like to work with microphones, that's why we want to change to in ear monitoring.

[Vunz]

Originally Posted by eric.damstra

I'm using a DPA 4060 attached to the bridge. It's an omni and gives a well ballanced sound. I tried many microphones but for me this is the most natural sounding. I want the mic to be attached to my bass so the sound doesn't change when I move the instrument. I tried several cardiod and hyper cardiod's placed with rubber bands between the bridge, but that didn't do it for me. But it's all very personal.

Up till now I used a highlander IP1 built into my bridge for the monitoring/backline and the DPA to the P.A. But I really like to work with microphones, that's why we want to change to in ear monitoring.

Hi Eric,

Can you use the DPA together with an amp, or haven't you ever tried an amp with this mic at all? I am asking because omni mics usually are not the best candidates to use live, but on the other hand they are best suited to amplify instruments that produce low frequencies (no proximity effect). So my question is: can you use this mic with an amp?

Thanks and cheers,

Vincent

PS: I use the Shure E2 in-ear earphones (with an iPod) and I love them!

[eric.damstra]

I used the DPA with an amp. It works but it is too much depending on the room, speakers, stage etc. So the results are good but it's sometimes not loud enough before feedback occurs. When it works it sounds superb no doubt.

[Vunz]

Thanks for your reply. Your experiences where consistent with my expectations. I use a hypercardioid mic (a Neumann KM 185 - a great mic, but substantially larger than a DPA 4060) with an amp, and in this way I am able to avoid the downsides you mentioned.

A pity, though. I would have loved to be able to amplify my bass with a tiny omni!

Cheers,

Vincent

[chrisrhoads]

Just a word of the wise. I have been using ears for about 3 years now. And although they are wonderful if you are using your own personal mixing system such as an Aviom to mix your own ears. In all other settings I prefer to have a wedge. Now in regard to bass response skip the e3s. They were my first pair, and to be honest they just dont provide a realistic or quality sound IMHO. Spend the extra money and either get the shure e5s ( although these are around 400 i believe, however sometimes you can find them cheaper on ebay ) or go with the UE5s ( made by Ultimate Ears ) these cost about 250 and provide even better bass response than the Shure E5s. However personally, the e5s were more comfortable. Final note is to consider getting ear molds. With in ear monitors the sound you hear is very relative to how deep or secure your in ear monitors are in your ears. So if you can budget for an extra 60-80 bucks go to your audiologist and get a mold to go with the UE5s. So then for around 310-350 bucks you have a custom always perfect fitting in ear monitor with great bass response that will never let you down. Let me know if you have any questions, ive had alot of experience with the Shure E3s, the Shure E5s, Westone, and the Ultimate Ear UE5s.

[Ed Fuqua]

Does anyone know how I can upload an mpeg (maybe about 3 or 4 seconds long) of me, head down, forehead in hands, shaking my head?

[eric.damstra]

Ed why??

[Ed Fuqua]

Cause I would get a lot of use out of it.