Eden WTX-260 for DB

mje · #1 02-20-2007, 09:34 AM

I bought one of these for BG to replace an Eden WT-400 that was way more than I needed, and for that use, I like it. The other day I tried it with my DB as well- Fishman BP-100 straight into the Eden into an Aguilar GS-112, and I was pretty happy with the sound. The WTX-260 is not as flat and accurate as the AI amps, but the tonal flexibility seems to handle the Fishman's peakiness well.

LarryR · #2 03-07-2007, 04:28 PM

I had a similar epiphany.

Yesterday I rcvd my WTX-260 from fellow TB'er Vic on the other side. My plan is to use it for my smaller BG gigs. It took a little time to figure out things (EQ, enhance etc.) but once I did, I'm impressed. 3.8lbs and a little sweety she is. Powerful and sensitive EQ section. She doesn't like my UL110 but loves my LDS 2x8. I was using a Fender P and Mike Lull jazz V4.

Next, I plugged in my Realist (on an American Standard) and the EQ section is sensitive enough to dial in a useful tone. Nothing like the naturalness of my Focus, but, ........ useful. Then I plugged in my Clark Biesele magnetic p/u which I use in those cases when noone onstage knows how to play with an upright. I don't know why, but JesusChristo! The Eden head makes the magnetic sound like an upright! Not a 6' BG like my Focus! I was pinching myself. What a frickin' bonus! I A/B'd with amp on & off to hear the difference. It came SO close in giving me "my bass, but louder" I'm blown away. This weekend I'll test drive her at 2 different venues and will let you know what happens in the real world.

I'm going to try something new though. Bring 2 small heads & cabs. Total lbs.: 58

Magnetic>WTX-260>LDS
MIC>Focus>UL110

Conceptually I've a feeling (a hope) that I'll get such a sound that will preclude any need to fidget with electronics, and just simply PLAY! I hope to get all the meat I need with the magnetic, and all the air with the Mic. I've tried this with the Focus 2, but, when I blend a a pickup (magnetic or piezo) with a Mic, neither source sounds as it should/would alone. I'm sure some guys know why, but, it's a drag. Maybe its a phase issue? If so, maybe I should try a Countryman DI between Instr and Amp.

ToneRanger · #3 03-07-2007, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarryR

Maybe its a phase issue? If so, maybe I should try a Countryman DI between Instr and Amp.

A simple way to test for phase cancellation is to swap the wires on pins 2 & 3 of your mic lead. I have a very short phase-reversal lead in my gig bag for that purpose - carefully labelled, of course!

LarryR · #4 03-07-2007, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToneRanger

A simple way to test for phase cancellation is to swap the wires on pins 2 & 3 of your mic lead. I have a very short phase-reversal lead in my gig bag for that purpose - carefully labelled, of course!

Thanks for the tip man. Until then.....

here's my setup that I'll try this weekend. If it works, I might look into a Wizzy 10 or (2) to lower the weight. It sounds good in the apartment.....

bolo · #5 03-08-2007, 10:03 PM

I think a few other people have commented about sending the mic signal and the p/u signal through different drivers, although not necessarily through two separate amps like you've described. I think maybe they were using a 2 channel amp with the ability to split the output signals perhaps.

I agree that sometimes when blending a mic + p/u through a single speaker, they seem to fight or resist each other sometimes. Almost like the sonic total is less than the sum of its parts under certain conditions. I know that's not very technical, and I don't know why that is so. But that's what my ears sense anyway. And I always thought using one speaker for the mic and another for the p/u might fix that.

That's a lot of stuff to schlep to most of my gigs. But I just might have to try it using my Solstice to split 'em up.

LarryR · #6 03-08-2007, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bolo

I agree that sometimes when blending a mic + p/u through a single speaker, they seem to fight or resist each other sometimes. Almost like the sonic total is less than the sum of its parts under certain conditions.

Thanks for your input; perfect description of what I hear w/my Focus. A cancellation of competing signals. A lightweight stereo cab (2x8) could be cool. I'm not in the mood (tax season) to search out a true stereo head ala WW. If I can fasten wizzy 10's together, carry my Focus and Eden in the Focus bag....it's one trip. Ehh.... we'll see.

JazzDude · #7 03-09-2007, 12:45 PM

I've been playing through the WTX-260 since last November - I got one of the first-runs. I've used it exclusively with a big band and a quartet/quintet for weekly rehearsals and about 10 gigs so far. It's running through an Eden CX110 cabinet, which I raise off the floor. If I don't raise it, this setup would shake the whole band off the stage.

It's used mostly with my DB through a Revolution Solo, which puts out a lot of bottom end. I also use it with my EUB and a G&L 5-string.

I've never had a problem with volume using this setup, though I have had to push the master volume to about 3 o'clock. I previously used an MB200 and then a GK400RB through the same cabinet. The MB200 was seriously underpowered, and the 400RB head was a pain to carry around. I really like the sound, once I found the right settings. The EQ-compression-enhance settings change dramatically for each of the 3 basses, and it took some experimentation to find the right combinations. If I played much arco live, I'd have to come up with a 4th setting. At medium to high volumes, it's not a completely transparent setup, but does it matter when it's that loud? It cuts through the band and sounds really good on live recordings. At lower volumes, it sounds like a loud version of my DB.

I am really happy with this setup because of it's size, weight, and power - the head goes in my backpack along with charts, cables and my tuner. I theoretically could do one trip (without a music stand), but I'd rather not wheel a DB around with one arm if I can avoid it.

I did have a problem with the sound breaking up sporadically. I replaced the 1/4" speaker connection with a 2' cable and neutrik connectors, and the problem went away. I'm not sure if it was the connectors or the cable being overpowered or maybe just going bad.

The head weighs 3.8 lbs. Eden will be coming out soon with a combo with this head and cabinet, except it will use Neodymium magnets that significantly reduce the speaker weight.

LarryR · #8 03-09-2007, 02:02 PM

Nice post JazzDude. Happy to hear.....you're happy with the setup.

May I ask you guys a question as I profess my ignorance with this stuff: Can I eliminate a cab and use both AI and Eden heads?
Magnetic>Eden
MIC>AI CH1
.....and somehow hookup one cab only (say to the AI) feed an output from Eden to AI CH2? Or, do I need a splitter (A/B/C) box. Thanks in advance.

JazzDude · #9 03-09-2007, 04:30 PM

You can send the DI/Recording output into your AI CH2 - it's an XLR output, so you may need a transformer/adapter unless CH2 has an XLR input. Alternatively, you can use the tuner out on the Eden's front panel. I think this one is pre-EQ. The XLR out is selectable pre- or post-EQ with the treble knob.

Note that you could still have a phase issue with this setup.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarryR

Nice post JazzDude. Happy to hear.....you're happy with the setup.

May I ask you guys a question as I profess my ignorance with this stuff: Can I eliminate a cab and use both AI and Eden heads?
Magnetic>Eden
MIC>AI CH1
.....and somehow hookup one cab only (say to the AI) feed an output from Eden to AI CH2? Or, do I need a splitter (A/B/C) box. Thanks in advance.

Johnny Atomic · #10 03-09-2007, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarryR

Nice post JazzDude. Happy to hear.....you're happy with the setup.

May I ask you guys a question as I profess my ignorance with this stuff: Can I eliminate a cab and use both AI and Eden heads?
Magnetic>Eden
MIC>AI CH1
.....and somehow hookup one cab only (say to the AI) feed an output from Eden to AI CH2? Or, do I need a splitter (A/B/C) box. Thanks in advance.

You could install two separate speaker jacks on the 2x8 cab (or on a 2x10 cab) and have each head run a single speaker.

Does your 2x8 cab have a tweeter? if so, you could wire the tweeter/crossover to one jack or the other, and have the other jack just the other speaker. That would allow you to switch the amp heads back and forth to decide which one sounds best running a tweeter and a speaker, and which one you want to just run a speaker.

I did this one time w/ an old marshall 4x12 for a guitar rig, I had a fender bandmaster running two speakers, and a marshall head on the other two.

Johnny Atomic

LarryR · #11 03-09-2007, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Atomic

You could install two separate speaker jacks on the 2x8 cab (or on a 2x10 cab) and have each head run a single speaker.

Does your 2x8 cab have a tweeter? if so, you could wire the tweeter/crossover to one jack or the other, and have the other jack just the other speaker. That would allow you to switch the amp heads back and forth to decide which one sounds best running a tweeter and a speaker, and which one you want to just run a speaker.

If I want to get deeper into this, I could call Don at LDS and ask him about a custom 2x8 cab w/speakers baffled so there's no interference. In the meantime, your idea is cool. Inexpensive to try out, reversible. Thanks man.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazzDude

You can send the DI/Recording output into your AI CH2 - it's an XLR output, so you may need a transformer/adapter unless CH2 has an XLR input. Alternatively, you can use the tuner out on the Eden's front panel. I think this one is pre-EQ. The XLR out is selectable pre- or post-EQ with the treble knob.

Note that you could still have a phase issue with this setup.

I do have a transformer, would want to go post-EQ and yes, I envision a phase issue same as if using both channels of the AI. Well. I've got some ideas to try out. I appreciate the input gents. Thanks.