An Ehrlund blog, sort of

[Ric Vice]

Originally Posted by VegasGutPlucker

Nice,

Here is the link to Goran Ehrlund's Patten on his microphone. Those who know how to look at such things may find this helpful. http://www.google.com/patents?id=li6...page&q&f=false

[engedi1]

Wow. Thanks for the analysis Les. I think this answers a question of the why the Ehrlund stuff sounds so good. With a totally flat tone, it lets the tone of YOUR bass come through, the good and the bad. Really cool. Question for you better educated guys: Do you think adding F-decks HPF into the chain would improve the performance? Sofar, I have not noticed big problems with too much infrasonics, or my speaker cone wobbling about. If there is too much low end in a certain room, I just dial it down with my bass knob. I have noticed in the outdoor venue where they take a raw signal from the DI, that when they crank it up, it gets pretty bassy. But maybe giving them a post-preamp signal would solve that problem? Anyway, what are your thoughts on using the HPF with the Ehrlund? Have you tried it Ric? Les?

[Thumpie]

Originally Posted by engedi1

Wow. Thanks for the analysis Les. I think this answers a question of the why the Ehrlund stuff sounds so good. With a totally flat tone, it lets the tone of YOUR bass come through, the good and the bad. Really cool. Question for you better educated guys: Do you think adding F-decks HPF into the chain would improve the performance? Sofar, I have not noticed big problems with too much infrasonics, or my speaker cone wobbling about. If there is too much low end in a certain room, I just dial it down with my bass knob. I have noticed in the outdoor venue where they take a raw signal from the DI, that when they crank it up, it gets pretty bassy. But maybe giving them a post-preamp signal would solve that problem? Anyway, what are your thoughts on using the HPF with the Ehrlund? Have you tried it Ric? Les?

With the Erhlund, I've messed around with the HPF on my Acoustic Image and found that I don't need as much as I did with my Full Circle. The Ehrlund does seem to produce a "flat" response to my ear (as well as the empirical evidence presented by these other posts).

I still like using a HPF rolled off at around 30 hertz because anything below that is unnecessary, and a potenial source of feedback. Also, the HPF is the where I go to fix problems with problem venues. Actually, it's gotten to the point where I almost *never* use EQ to fix a problem.

I'm enjoying the deep geek of this thread...

[David Morris]

I just received an Ehrlund EAP and preamp and have been experimenting this afternoon. I must be one of the lucky ones - I really couldn't find an attachment spot on my de Sola hybrid where it sounded bad, just spots where it sounded good, some better than others.

I noticed that I had to crank both the gain and master volume on my PJB Flightcase higher than with the Full Circle I have been using to get a usable gig volume - leaving little to no headroom. I also tried going from the preamp to the fx return to bypass the amp's preamp, but didn't seem to get enough volume that way. Normal?

Does anyone have a manual in pdf format that could be emailed to me? I didn't get one with the used unit I bought, and the website doesn't have a link to one - it says the manual is being updated and is not available.

[Thumpie]

Originally Posted by David Morris

I just received an Ehrlund EAP and preamp and have been experimenting this afternoon. I must be one of the lucky ones - I really couldn't find an attachment spot on my de Sola hybrid where it sounded bad, just spots where it sounded good, some better than others.

I noticed that I had to crank both the gain and master volume on my PJB Flightcase higher than with the Full Circle I have been using to get a usable gig volume - leaving little to no headroom. I also tried going from the preamp to the fx return to bypass the amp's preamp, but didn't seem to get enough volume that way. Normal?

Does anyone have a manual in pdf format that could be emailed to me? I didn't get one with the used unit I bought, and the website doesn't have a link to one - it says the manual is being updated and is not available.

I'm also looking for a manual! Could someone send me one too?!?!

[Thumpie]

Originally Posted by David Morris

I just received an Ehrlund EAP and preamp and have been experimenting this afternoon. I must be one of the lucky ones - I really couldn't find an attachment spot on my de Sola hybrid where it sounded bad, just spots where it sounded good, some better than others.

I noticed that I had to crank both the gain and master volume on my PJB Flightcase higher than with the Full Circle I have been using to get a usable gig volume - leaving little to no headroom. I also tried going from the preamp to the fx return to bypass the amp's preamp, but didn't seem to get enough volume that way. Normal?

Does anyone have a manual in pdf format that could be emailed to me? I didn't get one with the used unit I bought, and the website doesn't have a link to one - it says the manual is being updated and is not available.

I've been messing with running the thing through its pre-amp and then into a Fishman preamp (for increased headroom mainly, but then I can also utilize the effects if I want to).

Doing something like this should give you all the gain you need...

[Ric Vice]

Originally Posted by David Morris

I noticed that I had to crank both the gain and master volume on my PJB Flightcase higher than with the Full Circle I have been using to get a usable gig volume - leaving little to no headroom. I also tried going from the preamp to the fx return to bypass the amp's preamp, but didn't seem to get enough volume that way. Normal?

David,
There was one player on TB who had difficulty using the PJB Superflight Case with the Ehrlund. That said, there was also another individual who had no difficulty at all with the PJB. The Ehrlund Pre Amp isn't really designed to replace the your amplifiers pre amp. It raises the input impedance and gives you a ruler flat tone profile. I would recommend that you try the EAP with a different amplifier and see what the results are.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that you should go out and buy a different amplifier, quite the contrary. However, you just need to see if the signal from the EAP is weak through a different amplifier. The EAP is a "linear microphone" so it's volume comes up very gradually, and it's so transparent in the mix with other instruments that you can be quite loud out front and not notice the difference standing right next to the amp.


The "manual" is a simple one page sheet with placement instructions for the pickup. Not really a deal breaker.
Ric

[engedi1]

The manual is not much help. Also, try using the "high" setting on the preamp. It adds some boost. For a while I was using my effects return, and the high setting was the only way I had enough gain. I use the low setting now that I am back to plugging into the preamp.

[David Morris]

Originally Posted by Ric Vice

There was one player on TB who had difficulty using the PJB Superflight Case with the Ehrlund. That said, there was also another individual who had no difficulty at all with the PJB. The Ehrlund Pre Amp isn't really designed to replace the your amplifiers pre amp. It raises the input impedance and gives you a ruler flat tone profile. I would recommend that you try the EAP with a different amplifier and see what the results are.

Thanks - I'll try it with my Super Flightcase and my Streamliner 900/Thunderchild 112 tomorrow and compare the results.

Originally Posted by Ric Vice

The "manual" is a simple one page sheet with placement instructions for the pickup. Not really a deal breaker.
Ric

OK, thanks. I'll read through both of the Ehrlund threads again for additional information.

[drurb]

Ric-- Thanks for reminding folks about the analysis of the Ehrlund pre that I posted right here in this thread. I guess with a thread as long as this one, it's understandable that people might have missed it.

A few comments:

Originally Posted by DoubleMIDI

Maybe there is some fixed eq following the input stage to get a non-coloured sound out of the package. I think this is the reason why the Ehrlund preamp works best with the Ehrlund pickup, it is simply made to clean up what the pickup delivers.

My measurements show unequivocally that there is no "voicing" or "eq" built into the pre-amp. It's flat from about 20 Hz to at least 10 kHz. In short, the Ehrlund pre is a buffer having a flat frequency response with two gain settings. That's all it is-- no secret sauce, nothing hiding within.

Originally Posted by engedi1

Wow. Thanks for the analysis Les. I think this answers a question of the why the Ehrlund stuff sounds so good. With a totally flat tone, it lets the tone of YOUR bass come through, the good and the bad. Really cool.

Keep in mind that it's the pre-amp that has a flat response. I doubt that frequency response of the pickup (and thus, that of the pickup/pre system) is flat. I suspect, however, that it's flatter than most of the pickup systems discussed here.

Originally Posted by engedi1

Question for you better educated guys: Do you think adding F-decks HPF into the chain would improve the performance? Sofar, I have not noticed big problems with too much infrasonics, or my speaker cone wobbling about. If there is too much low end in a certain room, I just dial it down with my bass knob. I have noticed in the outdoor venue where they take a raw signal from the DI, that when they crank it up, it gets pretty bassy. But maybe giving them a post-preamp signal would solve that problem? Anyway, what are your thoughts on using the HPF with the Ehrlund? Have you tried it Ric? Les?

As I've posted before, I see no utility to following the Ehrlund pre with a high-pass filter if your purpose is to vanquish infrasonics. The pickup, being essentially a microphone, will not pass them for at least two reasons: 1) the top of the bass simply doesn't transmit them, at least in the course of normal playing and 2) the response of the microphone is likely attenuated in the infrasonic region. Now, if you like having a high-pass filter for tonal shaping, as Thumpie does, then you might wish to have it there as you do with other pickups.

[Mark Gollihur]

For those asking for a copy of the manual, apparently they're making a new one and the existing one has been taken off the Ehrlund website. Here's one in Swedish, if you care to translate:
http://raunonieminen.com/sivusto/pdf/eap.pdf

If you message/email me with an email address, I'll be happy to send you a PDF copy of our "tip sheet" that we include with every EAP.

[David Morris]

Originally Posted by drurb

Ric-- Thanks for reminding folks about the analysis of the Ehrlund pre that I posted right here in this thread. I guess with a thread as long as this one, it's understandable that people might have missed it.

I either missed it, or maybe I hadn't read the entire thread. At any rate, thanks for the analysis, Les. I solved the low volume problem by switching the High/Low switch to "High." I wrongly assumed that this switch was related to frequency response and was applicable to the type of instrument being amplified. After reading your post #124, in this thread the light bulb turned on. I can't wait to try the Ehrlund out on a gig this weekend! It sounds fantastic in my practice room.

Originally Posted by sixandeightstringer

For those asking for a copy of the manual, apparently they're making a new one and the existing one has been taken off the Ehrlund website. Here's one in Swedish, if you care to translate:
http://raunonieminen.com/sivusto/pdf/eap.pdf

Actually, that one is in Finnish! Thanks for the "tip sheet" offer, Mark - I'll email you.

[Thumpie]

Originally Posted by Ric Vice

Nice,

Here is the link to Goran Ehrlund's Patten on his microphone. Those who know how to look at such things may find this helpful. http://www.google.com/patents?id=li6...page&q&f=false

Well, there it is. A microphone. No piezo. Not at all.

When the patent runs out, these things might start taking over...

[PB+J]

That's the patent on the mic, not the pickup. I couldn't find the patent on the pickup.

I played a gig tonight at a nice little room in DC. I first tried the ehrlund pre straight into the back of an EV ZXA1, a powered monitor.

The sound was good but very bassy. I made it through the first set that way and at the break plugged the ehrlund preamp into my edb1. Very nice. I was able to control the excessive bass and got a really sweet usable tone all night. Lot of cords though.

[fdeck]

There's a Swedish patent here:

http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publi...7A1&KC=A1&ND=4

It's in Swedish.

[PB+J]

Great find fdeck! I clicked your link and got the abstract in English, and I was able to get the full patent, also in English, by clicking "original document" on the left menu.

It's a piezo film transducer. The patent description mentions using a piezo film buzzer as the starting point. It's all about the shape and its effects on resonance

All praise to ehrlund for getting rid of the usual piezo artifacts.

[al808]

So it IS a piezo ? Wow...

[DoubleMIDI]

Piezo film and piezo crystal are very different in resonance behaviour, but also in output impedance.
There are still some pickups with piezo film on the market like the Shadow SH-965NFX (and probably the Realist) and something similar using electret film (APTflex).
But they are all pressure driven, not a contact microphone like the EAP.

[al808]

Originally Posted by DoubleMIDI

Piezo film and piezo crystal are very different in resonance behaviour, but also in output impedance.
There are still some pickups with piezo film on the market like the Shadow SH-965NFX (and probably the Realist) and something similar using electret film (APTflex).
But they are all pressure driven, not a contact microphone like the EAP.

Thanks DoubleMIDI for your informative post.

[Thumpie]

So maybe Ehrlund's obfuscation on the product's design is simply marketing. They've got a great (possibly revolutionary) new piezo design, but they want to distance themselves from the word "piezo."