Ehrlund vs SoundClip

[TroyK]

I posted the question a while back ~“has anyone used both the Ehrlund and the Gage SoundClip enough to talk about the differences?” It appeared no one had. Both of these $400 pickups hit the market at roughly the same time and (hefty) price point and offered something that we didn’t have a lot of, portable, removable hi-fidelity pickups. I was at a place where my setup was very high priority to me and the idea of a pickup that I could remove without leaving any footprint on my bass when it wasn’t in use appealed to me. I play acoustic when it’s appropriate and generally just don’t want anything on my bass that doesn’t need to be there at that exact time. After reading a bunch of reviews and gaining some minor exposure to each (documented in those threads), I chose the Ehrlund and it’s pre-amp. A few months back, I was able to trade a few things for a SoundClip, so I actually own both now and have used each enough to share my experience.

Let me make all my disclaimers first: My bass is my bass, your bass is your bass. My ear is my ear, yours is yours. The rooms I play in and the people I play with are…..you get it. YMMV, mine usually does.

My pickup history includes multi-year stints with each of the original Realist and the Full-Circle and a year and change with the Ehrlund. I had a Stat-B on trial for a little while and I tried the first generation Upton Rev Solo, but it didn’t work out for me. I’ve also played with a few other bridge wing type pickups, but didn’t connect with any of them. I liked the Realist when I used it. I liked the Full-Circle better when I switched.

I have 2 combo amps:
Acoustic Image Series 3
Euphonic Audio iAmp 500
The EA is a better amp, but 30lbs heavier, so both get used fairly equally.

Let me also say that I’m not a great eq’er. I’m better than I used to be, but I realize that through eq and pre-amp choices a lot difference can be made. I’m getting better at it, but your skills may be better than mine. Also (and I think this really matters) I’m a mid-tier working guy in Seattle. That means that I’m usually not in venues with planned acoustics and quiet listening audiences. Room to room and band to band my experiences and needs are different. A lesson that I learned the hard way with strings.

So, on with it.

The Ehrlund required quite a bit of experimenting to figure out how to mount it without picking up noise from the lead wire. This issue is well documented. A lot of people resolved this by hard-mounting the jack on their tailpiece, like with the classic Realist. That defeated the purpose for me. I found a solution involving some Velcro and learned to get it on and off without too much trouble. Occasionally that wire will still touch something and cause a honk, but it’s not a crippling issue anymore. The first 2 months with it, I thought either the pickup or I would not survive.

Placement is very important. I found a sweet spot and have experimented with others, but most are not nearly as good as the one that I use. I suspect, because the bass is such a big instrument, that there is some spot I haven’t found yet, but I’m not really looking at this point. In a perfect environment with either of my amps, it’s beautifully transparent. Trio in a setting that I could almost be acoustic in, it just brings my presence up enough without making it sound amplified. Into a PA, it’s a good solution. A dream realized, actually.

When the room and/or the drummer are less friendly, it’s a less consistent experience. I’ve had feedback problems that were usually resolved in a set break by rearranging the stage. When it happened, nothing simple would fix it. Again, better tech skills on my part may have made a difference, but it is fair to say, it’s a less stable solution. I had similar experiences during my Stat-B trial. They are both great mic/pickups, I would say neither is for people who don’t like fooling with gear and/or aren’t good at it, unless you’re only playing in really controlled environments. Oddly enough, this is where I think being Peter Brady hurts me. Beginners may not have the room issues to contend with that I do and first call players in the good clubs probably don’t either. But, that’s where I am.

About 6 months in, my pre-amp developed a short on a gig. I need to send it to Ehrlund to be repaired and I’m told that they’ll take good care of me and I don’t doubt it, but haven’t done it either. Through my AI combo, the Ehrlund just doesn’t sound good without the pre-amp. Through the EA, it sounds pretty close to the same with or without the pre-amp. A lot has been written about pre-amps with this pickup and I’ll leave it there. I will say that I also had a problem with the Stat-B pre-amp and my attitude is really that I don’t want to NEED one, because things break, even if they are warrantied, that doesn’t help on a gig or quickly if you don’t live in Sweden. I need simple stuff that I can count on to work.

I’ll also say that (as with my string lessons learned) that in tougher rooms, that warm transparent, woody, wholesome tone leaves some gaps in what I need to hear and project. You know that sweet spot I mentioned? I found that right between the bridge feet is more useful when my environment is loud. Demoing the pickup in a studio, that’s not the sound I want, on a gig, sometimes it’s the one I need. Kudos I suppose to the pickup for being versatile. I also think it’s great that I could put this on guitar or other acoustic instrument, but haven’t done so.

The SoundClip – So, you know that 2 months of pain trying to isolate the wire on the Ehrlund? I think the equivalent on the SoundClip is the realization that you need something between the element and the bridge. The previous owner and TalkBass great El Mon, worked through that pain and send me some little pieces of rubber that he had cut for this purpose. I tried it once without and it sounded harsh and awful. With the rubber, 100x better. David Gage should consider something in the next version of this pickup. I’ve collected a few other bits of material that might be worth trying, like pieces of cork, but what he sent me works so well, that I don’t know if I’ll ever try them.

Comparatively, on the bass, the SoundClip is bigger and heavier, yet somehow I don’t notice it when I’m playing. Installing and removing is literally seconds. I haven’t searched hard for “the spot”. The first few I tried, worked well and I stopped looking. I have a favorite spot and a backup that I can go to if I need to. I don’t generally feel the need to move it around on the gig, like I did with the Ehrlund.

There is no lead wire, you plug straight into it (which is one reason it’s bigger). Therefore, there is nothing left behind when you take it off. Definite advantage SoundClip on this point for me. I’m not using a pre-amp with it, though maybe one would help. I’ll likely run that experiment at some point, but it’s nice not to need it. It works about as well with either amp, this was one of the selling points of the original Realist to me. It’s not twitchy that way. Differences from one to the other are differences in anything else that I would plug into those two amps.

The sound, with all my caveats, is not “my bass only louder”, but it sounds very good. At low volumes or with some better eq skills, it might approach transparent, but it definitely sounds more like a pickup than the Ehrlund can (not always does, but CAN). It has hints of the old Realist, hints of Full Circle, very subtle suggestions of maybe an Underwood at times. But it’s got it’s own sound that for me is somewhere in the middle of those things.

Saturday night, big restaurant, tall ceilings, game on the TV, bartender with a martini shaker, people talking and laughing at their table, glass wall behind us; The drummer looked at me and said “that pickup sounds much better” and it did. When the room was loudest, it sounded pretty woody and wholesome. When things got quieter, I twiddled a little and it mostly kept that feel in that room. I didn’t ever experience this ability with the Ehrlund. It was good or it was bad or it was off and I couldn’t fix it.

So, overall, for my purposes, the SoundClip is much more useful as a gigging pickup. For those occasions when I need 15% more than I can comfortably generate with just my hands, the Ehrlund would probably be better, by how much is hard to say. But, I’d better have a working preamp or I have to bring my 50 lb amp to address what was a 20 lb amp need. I did a few hours in the studio on Saturday and then had the gig I mentioned. I like mics in the studio, but the engineer wanted a signal to blend and I didn’t feel like fighting him, so I put the Ehrlund on. Never considered the SoundClip because I know I wouldn’t like hearing it direct into the board, the Ehrlund sounded pretty good (though I hope his uses the mic instead). On the gig, never considered anything but the SoundClip.

I suspect that blending the two would produce a really nice result, but I’m not really inclined to do that sort of thing. More stuff to fiddle with and go wrong. If you’re into that sort of thing and have $800 lying around then it’s probably worth a try. Which I think has come up in the Ehrlund threads and is what happens with mics (it is a mic after all). Same with the Dyn-B. They’re great, more than ½ of the people who end up using them seem to blend in a piezo signal too. I can see why. There is something that you get from a mic like this that is always lacking in a piezo pickup and conversely, you can't always count on mics doing what pickups can do for you, in any environment. If your needs and your ear are that refined, blending is probably the way to go.

I said I couldn’t afford both, but since I traded for one, I have both for the moment. They’re different enough that I may hang onto both for now, but if I start to let one go, there’s no question that it will be the Ehrlund. The SoundClip is a very good, very practical, stable useful pickup and I’m really happy that I have it.

One last comment then let the games begin, I know that I’ve already expressed what is not the majority opinion, but there it is.

I think the Fishman Full Circle is the best pickup on the market. It’s consistent, it’s stable, it’s clean, it can sound very natural, you’ve got some ability to dial things in and out of it. It works. I’m currently of the mind that I don’t want something that I can’t take off. The wheel being there doesn’t bother me but the lead wire does. I tried mounting it a few different ways and caused a short in the RCA, which I had to replace and it just bugged me. Great pickup, but not what I want right now.

As it is, I’m pretty happy with the SoundClip. I doubt that I’ll use anything but or think much about it for the next several years. The Ehrlund is a really cool device too, just not as practical in my hands or in my world. There are other good choices, they all seem to have their issues. The biggest issues I plan on addressing this year are in my hands. I have good equipment that serves my needs and now I can resume regularly scheduled programing.

Thanks to Talkbass for making this even possible. I hope this is useful to someone now or later in a search.

[DoubleMIDI]

Thanks TroyK for your review. Really interesting.

One point why other don't like the Soundclip might be that they don't use your piece of rubber. (Just curious: how large and thick is it and on which side of the SoundClip do you put it?)

Personally I had resonance problems with the Full Circle. Any small resonances I had, hardly noticable with a Shadow 965NFX-B bridge foot pickup or Shadow 950 bridge wing pickup made it difficult to use the Full Circle without a full parametric equalizer. I changed strings and it got better, but it is still there. Maybe the bridge angle had some influence, I'm not sure. No such problems with the two Shadow pickups which only need basic bass and treble control. For me, the Full Circle has a good attack-sustain-ratio, but I'm not too much happy for overall sound.

For the moment I will keep all my three pickups on the bass and use what is best for a certain situation.

One problem with easily removable pickups is, they are easily removable. And not only for the owner...

[GrowlerBox]

Thanks for a great review, Troy -- well worth the wait.

Interestingly, I haven't found the insertion of a piece of rubber terribly helpful, but that may be in part because I use fdeck's preamp; I think what the shim does is damp some of the more extreme output from the piezo, but this is a relatively uninformed supposition based on being able to get a similar effect from using a bit of HPF and a little low-mid EQ fiddling. I find that simpler than sliding a small piece of rubber between the element and the bridge in the dark while trying to hold the instrument steady.

Which weight(s) did you end up using? FWIW, I'm just using the single smaller weight at present -- I found that switching these around had a greater effect on the tone than using rubber shims.

Anyhow -- I'm glad you're finding it a useful pickup. I don't know why that makes me feel better, but it does . Perhaps I was starting to wonder whether my senses were failing me, given that I seem to be more enthusiastic about it than most.

Edit: Inspired, or perhaps simply maddened, by Troy's excellent review, I've just gone back and revisited the whole rubber insert thing. I think you're right, damn you! So (at least for today!), I have a rubber shim cut from a piece of bicycle inner tube taped on with a bit of micropore surgical tape. It helps eliminate some boom that was difficult to cut with a simple 4-band EQ without also reducing necessary tone. At low to moderate volume, not too far from the "my bass only louder" grail.

[TroyK]

On the weights, I've got them all on. I took them all off, put them all back on. A little different, but I didn't spend a lot of time with it.

I'd like to try the fdeck pre-amp and I know that Jake has one, so next time I'm up to BC or he's down I will. I could see it making a difference. I also need to experiment with eq more. It would be nice not to need the rubber shim. It would be nice to have better skills with an eq. Especially my EA has a good one. I'm getting better at it.

The rubber is thicker and denser than what I imagined. I'll measure it, but I'm going to guess 3mm and hard. I put it on the side with the metal, which I assume is the element. Maybe El Mon will come along and tell us what the rubber is from.

I find it hard to experiment too much with the amp because of the nature of the instrument. The best days of doing so, were with either an engineer or another player. I need to get together with John so that he can play while I eq, take weights on and off, etc and then switch places. I'm sure that I haven't found it's full capabilities yet. Not unlike my playing, unfortunately, once it was good enough for the gig, then I stopped working hard enough on making it better.

[geoffbassist]

That was a superb, comprehensive review TroyK. Thanks for posting and as Growlerbox says it was worth the wait.

For me I always go back to the Fullcircle as I never have to worry about it. Really consistent gig to gig. However I do wish I could remove the wire from the wheel with some kind of mini jack. The soundclip really appeals, but it's just to expensive. If I thought that I could get the same results as I do from my FC I would go for it.

Did you prefer the sound of the soundclip to the original realist?
Geoff

[TroyK]

Originally Posted by geoffbassist

That was a superb, comprehensive review TroyK.

You're welcome! I've gotten so much out of this forum, that it doesn't feel right not to share what I have. We're all in the same boat on having a few choices that aren't available to us at the corner store.

Originally Posted by geoffbassist

For me I always go back to the Fullcircle as I never have to worry about it. Really consistent gig to gig. However I do wish I could remove the wire from the wheel with some kind of mini jack.

Yep!

Originally Posted by geoffbassist

If I thought that I could get the same results as I do from my FC I would go for it.

You might, actually, but it wouldn't be as easy. For me, I had the FC installed and it just worked. Plug into anything and go, little eq now and again, move the wheel an 1/8 of a turn now and again, very easy.

Neither the SoundClip nor the Ehrlud, nor the Stat or Dyn-B's, nor great AMT mics or anything else along those lines are going to be as easy. All CAN sound as good, some can sound better at times. But, not as easy or probably consistent. That said, I'm really glad the FC is not on my bass anymore.

Originally Posted by geoffbassist

Did you prefer the sound of the soundclip to the original realist?
Geoff

Yeah, I think so, though it's been, I don't know more than 5 years since the Realist was on, so it's a tough direct comparison. When I hear a bassist with a Realist, it's a familar sound to what I remember. Not a bad pickup really, but I think the Full Circle sounds better. It's also less problematic to the bass than the Realist foil sitting on the table. But, the SoundClip goes the rest of the way to being kind to the bass and set up and it's working pretty well. I think it sounds as good as the Full Circle right now on my bass. A little different, but not worse, definitely better than I recall the Realist sounding. As I learn to dial it in, it should get better still.

[geoffbassist]

Thanks Troy, you are right about the forum. I've found it really useful. Great resource.

I'm looking forward to hearing more about how you get on with them both in future.

Cheers Geoff

[TroyK]

Originally Posted by GrowlerBox

Edit: Inspired, or perhaps simply maddened, by Troy's excellent review, I've just gone back and revisited the whole rubber insert thing. I think you're right, damn you! So (at least for today!), I have a rubber shim cut from a piece of bicycle inner tube taped on with a bit of micropore surgical tape. It helps eliminate some boom that was difficult to cut with a simple 4-band EQ without also reducing necessary tone. At low to moderate volume, not too far from the "my bass only louder" grail.

Ah!

The rubber I'm using is not like bicycle innertube rubber. It's thick, dense and stiff. I cut some similar slices of natural and synthetic cork that would be interesting to try too. Using a HPF and your amp to acomplish the same thing would be smart. I need to invest some time into it.

In my "Marantz or Similar" thread, which I also owe an update to, I've for the first time in my life got a true hi-fidelity stereo to listen to music through. Wow, what a difference. Worth learning how to electronically produce the right sounds when you're making or listening to music.

[Treyzer]

Thanks Troy. That was a great analysis and review and a very good read. I spent a little time with the Ehrlund but had no success at all. Until something remarkably better comes along I think I'll stick with the Full Circle. It has never let me down.

Best,

T

[TroyK]

Originally Posted by Treyzer

...Until something remarkably better comes along I think I'll stick with the Full Circle. It has never let me down.

Best,

T

That's a good call. Were it not for my neurosis, I would have done the same thing.

[DoubleMIDI]

Hi,

for those who want a Full Circle with a detachable cable at the height wheel have a look at the pickup from Yamahiko, the CPS-DB.

Double Bass Pickup,uprightbass woodbass | YAMAHIKO Instrument Pickup System

I have only seen that Eddie Gomez endorses it and listened to the sound examples (typical Eddie Gomez sound) but never tried it. Also more expensive or much more expensive (with two pickups) than the First Circle.

Never heard about it before.

[GrowlerBox]

Originally Posted by TroyK

Ah!

The rubber I'm using is not like bicycle innertube rubber. It's thick, dense and stiff. I cut some similar slices of natural and synthetic cork that would be interesting to try too. Using a HPF and your amp to acomplish the same thing would be smart. I need to invest some time into it.

In my "Marantz or Similar" thread, which I also owe an update to, I've for the first time in my life got a true hi-fidelity stereo to listen to music through. Wow, what a difference. Worth learning how to electronically produce the right sounds when you're making or listening to music.

Does the thick piece of rubber cut the output much? Even with the thin piece and micropore tape, I can turn the gain on my F1 pretty much to full without clipping (I tend to leave the Soundclip volume dialled up about halfway to start with, on the assumption that I get the greatest flexibility possible at my fingertips that way); without the rubber, the amp gain is set to ~11 o'clock. The cork sounds interesting -- might be time to crack some of that good Wairarapa vintage I have stashed away.

One of these days on the hi-fi. A new trombone is next, though. .

[TroyK]

I haven't noticed that, but I'll play with it some more. I don't have any output limitations with it in general. I feel like it's a hot as I could possibly need it to be.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Great review, TROIKA. Thanks for taking the time. I'll link this in the FAQ thread.

I agree about the Full Circle, BTW. It isn't perfect, but it's workable and reliable and you can forget about it and just get about the business of playing music. I'd love to try a Yamahiko, but I suspect it's much like the Full Circle but about 3x the cost and hard to get your hands on it.

[DoubleMIDI]

The Yamahiko is not so much more expensive if you use only one piezo element since this is what the Full Circle is. So it would be fair to compare similar things. And since both sit at the same point the Yamahiko should work with only one piezo element if the Full Circle does.

But VAT and customs will make it more expensive for most of us.

I a few other talkbass threads I found that the Yamahiko might sound a bit better than the First Circle, so that may be worth the higher price. And you can start with one element and buy the second one later if you want.

To solve my own Full Circle problem, I might need to work a bit on my bridge foot pressing against the First Circle, show the cable north or south and always have an eye on the bridge angle.

[ElMon]

Awesome review, and your comments/experiences on the Soundclip echo my own. Also, the rubber pieces i sent along with you can be found anywhere that supplies rubber washers/parts. The thicker piece I sent you is neoprene (thought that that one sounded the best IMO) and the thinner piece is actualy Buna with a nylon insert.

Really glad we did this trade as the Full Circle was like hitting the easy button. My bass is an Upton Standard Laminate 5-String that is strung with Velvet Garbos, and the darker character of that bass is complimented nicely by the Full Circles' string detail and IMO generally brighter character, coming from The Realist (soundclip and standard) as well as the BassMax/Golden trinity Mic combo I was using.

[TroyK]

Originally Posted by ElMon

...as the Full Circle was like hitting the easy button...

Yep, that's a fact. And it sounds great. It with a mic is probably perfect.

Glad you're happy with the trade. I am too. Talkbass is a splendiforus community sometimes.

[ElMon]

Couldn't agree more. The wealth of info on gear/music/life and the plethora of great deals on gear........just staggering. Hesitant and yet excited to dive into the microphone thing. From what I read I might be entering into a vastly complex and expensive venture.

[Ric Vice]

Originally Posted by TroyK

I think the Fishman Full Circle is the best pickup on the market. It’s consistent, it’s stable, it’s clean, it can sound very natural, you’ve got some ability to dial things in and out of it. It works. I’m currently of the mind that I don’t want something that I can’t take off. The wheel being there doesn’t bother me but the lead wire does. I tried mounting it a few different ways and caused a short in the RCA, which I had to replace and it just bugged me. Great pickup, but not what I want right now.

Troy,
Hey, I'm glad you got something, that works and sounds good. I think you're right about the Full Circle, and since so many players like it, that pretty much confirms it. Since I'm often using a bow, it's not the ideal pickup for me.

Originally Posted by TroyK

As it is, I’m pretty happy with the SoundClip. I doubt that I’ll use anything but or think much about it for the next several years. The Ehrlund is a really cool device too, just not as practical in my hands or in my world. There are other good choices, they all seem to have their issues. The biggest issues I plan on addressing this year are in my hands. I have good equipment that serves my needs and now I can resume regularly scheduled programing.

You were certainly, objective in you're evaluation of the Sound Clip, and the Ehrlund. Since, the Ehrlund sounds so good on my bass ,I feel the same way about it as you do the SoundClip. I have never heard anything sound as good. Fortunately, I'm not often competing with crowds or Flatscreens.

Ric

[ElMon]

Curious if you experienced the volume/output dropt that I did when using the rubber? That was the main reason I decided to part with it. The tone with the thicker piece of rubber was just about perfect at the medium volume I was able to get it up to before feedback, but alas I need a lot more volume for the gigs I do. Had I kept it I might have looked into getting some different sizes of rubber.