Extension Cabinet For the AI Coda

[thesneakyjesus]

Hello All.

I have been borrowing my buddies Coda, and I'm ready to buy one just about.

I realize that the biggest limitation is the cabinets volume. The combo will be perfect for about 70% of what I do. Maybe even more.

I will certainly need an extension cab for some things. When I go into Jimmy Garrison Mode and play 5ths, On Bb, the bottom woofer freaks out at a certain volume.

I'm looking for a cabinet that will allow me to off load some of this.

My questions are as follows:
#1) If I use an extension cab, will it still over load the original cab if I dig in at that volume, but just be louder? If so, that's a problem. With the new AI, I can remove the head though, so if I need to take it out to avoid damaging that speaker I can for sure! Great feature.
#2) What cab would be best? My experience so far has been with my Bergantino HT110. As soon as I plugged it in I just got my typical muddiness that I couldn't deal with. I lost all detail and quickness of the AI cab. Do I have to go with an 4,5,or 8" driver? Where can I get a cab like this? I know of the wizzys and 2x8 EA cabs are popular. Weight is kind of a concern, but not really. I really want the SOUND. I need this cab to be able to do high volume in door stuff and some med volume out door. I always figure that high volume out door I just won't be heard or hopefully there is a PA. If not, F that gig anyways. I could maybe use my aguilar 4x10 as an extension. I know dave holland does these things.

[Dr. Jake]

At the moment, I'm using an AI Coda+ and a Schroeder Mini 12 extension cab. With the detachable head, this allows for three different configurations: the Coda+ on its own, the head into the Schroeder 12, the Coda+ and the extension cab.

It's still early to give a full report, but I can already say that option #3 finally shut the mouths of bandmates constantly whining for more volume from the bass.

[tornadobass]

One of the considerations is the relatively low efficiency of the AI cab compared to most others that could be used as a second cab with it.

The Wizzy 12, one of my favorites, is much louder but also voiced with much more midrange. You could pull the head from the combo and go pretty loud with a Wizzy 12, but you might not hear so much from the combo's cab if you paired the two together. If weight is a concern, consider the Wizzy 10, which has even more midrange focus.

Lately, I've been trying out an Acme B-1 with my Clarus head. It's an even less efficient cab but sounds quite hi-fi with the Clarus. I don't know how much of a volume gain you'd get pairing the Acme with the combo's speaker, though.

If you do go with the combo plus a cab, remember that the combo's woofer is downfiring and will sound different if you put it on top of another cab off of the floor.

[LowNote]

I'd give a close look at the new Acoustic Image Ten2Ex cabinet. I have one of the first of them and have been using it exclusively with a Focus SIII amp for the last couple of weeks. I've played in a Rat Pack stage show in an auditorium for 1500 people (with PA support), and then a bunch of pub and hotel gigs of varying volumes with guitar and piano trios, sometimes with a tenor sax. This cabinet gets loud, and if the stage is too boomy, in addition to the HiPass filter (which I feel should always be used anyhow) there is a switch on the cabinet to reduce the amount of sound going to the down-firing woofer while increaseing the sound to the front-firing woofer. I'm very happy with the cabinet. I've also used it in my practice room with a Wizzy10 as an extension cabinet. I found that this produces tons of volume and yet the full power on the very bottom of the Ten2EX enriches the mid-range sound of the Wizzy in a way that is quite special. I'm playing a LaScala Hybrid Flatback with Evah Pirazzi strings and using a RevSoloII pickup.

Erik Hansen
Scotland

[all_grown_up]

Originally Posted by tornadobass

One of the considerations is the relatively low efficiency of the AI cab compared to most others that could be used as a second cab with it.

The Wizzy 12, one of my favorites, is much louder but also voiced with much more midrange. You could pull the head from the combo and go pretty loud with a Wizzy 12, but you might not hear so much from the combo's cab if you paired the two together. If weight is a concern, consider the Wizzy 10, which has even more midrange focus.

Lately, I've been trying out an Acme B-1 with my Clarus head. It's an even less efficient cab but sounds quite hi-fi with the Clarus. I don't know how much of a volume gain you'd get pairing the Acme with the combo's speaker, though.

If you do go with the combo plus a cab, remember that the combo's woofer is downfiring and will sound different if you put it on top of another cab off of the floor.

I have a Coda. Typically, when I need an extension, I use an 8 ohm Acme B1. I think it a good match with the Coda with comparable volume and similar tone. I also have a 4 ohm Wizzy 10 which I got because of the light weight. I think because of its mid emphasis, 4 Ohms and relative efficiency it tends to overpower the Coda speaker but its plenty loud. However, the eq I would put on the Acme and or the Coda which are similar, is different than the eq for the Wizzy.

I note that the original poster has a four ten. Since the new AI combos have removable amps, he could take the amp alone and his 4x10 to those outdoor gigs.

[tornadobass]

All_Grown...thanks for the info on the B-1. I imagined its tone and volume would be similar to the AI, although it doesn't seem as "quick" as the AI cabs in its response. Is that your experience?

[fdeck]

If the combo speaker is relatively inefficient, then it won't contribute much to the overall sound if the extension is more efficient. For this reason, your best bet might be to use the combo for most gigs, and the head plus a larger speaker for loud gigs.

[William Hoffman]

Originally Posted by thesneakyjesus

...My questions are as follows:
#1) If I use an extension cab, will it still over load the original cab if I dig in at that volume, but just be louder? ...
#2) What cab would be best? ... I need this cab to be able to do high volume in door stuff and some med volume out door.

at outdoor gigs where i need volume, i use a Clarus or Focus and a mic. i put a Wizzy 12 on the other side of the stage a bit more out front (feedback avoidance) and use an AI Contra Ex in the middle of the stage more as a monitor for the other musicians. a line out to PA if needed (usually not).

it is true what's been said, that the AI Contra cab is less efficient and it has less mid-range. in the above setup, more of the volume is out of the Wizzy12, and the Wizzy-Contra Ex mix is loud enough for stage and audience. soundwise the Wizzy and Contra Ex complement each other. this is a great cab mix either for amping gut strings or my Spiro/EP/Oliv mix. if i need still more mid-range, i take the Wizzy 10 and Wizzy 12, or Wizzy 10 paired with the Contra Ex.

[William Hoffman]

Originally Posted by LowNote

... the full power on the very bottom of the Ten2EX enriches the mid-range sound of the Wizzy in a way that is quite special. I'm playing a LaScala Hybrid Flatback with Evah Pirazzi strings and using a RevSoloII pickup. ...

how does the output of the Ten2 Ex (used by itself) compare to the other AI Contra Ex or to the Wizzies 10 and 12? does it have as much or less more mid-range? more details, please!

[LowNote]

William Hoffman
Quote:

how does the output of the Ten2 Ex (used by itself) compare to the other AI Contra Ex or to the Wizzies 10 and 12? does it have as much or less more mid-range? more details, please!

Good question. The Ten2Ex sounds very much like the "Acoustic Image Sound" as exemplified by the ContraEX in that it has the same even and flat response through the entire audio spectrum with no drop-off on the very low notes. However, because there is a forward facing woofer, it is much more "forward", more like a traditional loudspeaker married to the spreading sound that comes from the down-firing woofer. Another way of saying this is that there is considerably more punch from the Ten2EX than from the ContraEX. On hard swingers, I've gotten a lot of compliments from the guys in the band that the pulse is clear and firm. I find it easier to lock up with the drummer.

While getting the full frequency response requires lower efficiency, and it is not as loud as most bass guitar 2X10s, it is considerably louder than a single ContraEX or even two ContraEX speakers together. I have only been playing jazz through it at what most people would call moderate volumes. However, it has been plenty loud enough, even for good size rooms. I haven't had the volume knobs past Noon yet, and this is with a fair amount of HiPass Filter dialed in so that the volume has been reduced by this. I have also found myself dialing the bass down to about 10:00 with this speaker, on top of the HiPass reduction.

The Ten2EX has replaced a single or pair of Wizzy10 speakers that I've been using for the last 18 months with the same Focus head. While I haven't given up on the Wizzy's, particularly because they are so incredibly lightweight and easy to carry, their sound is very different with their major mid-range emphasis. With the Wizzy10, I was boosting bass to 3:00 (still using HiPass) and reducing the mid knob to 9:00 to try and thicken up the sound a bit. While this EQ adjustment helped, I wasn't able to get as woody a sound as I've been with the Ten2EX. The first time I get a gig that I think is going to require some higher volume--maybe a doubling gig--I intend to bring a Wizzy10 to pair with the Ten2EX. I have only tried them in my practice room, and so far like what I've heard. The Ten2EX gives me the incredibly thick bottom end while the Wizzy mid-range boosts the punchiness. The efficiency difference doesn't seem to be that important since a little "fat bottom" goes a long way when the volumes get up.

Hope this is helpful. This always so subjective and difficult to describe. In a posting a few years ago, I described the sound I was trying to get (on quarter notes) as "cubes with eased edges." I don't want them to sound like "spheres" or "blobs." In other words, I want the notes to be fat but hit hard. I've been able to do this with the Ten2EX.

Erik Hansen
Scotland

[William Hoffman]

Erik thanks for the detailed info. interesting and welcome news. i was wondering if the Ten2 Ex was going to be an AI version of the Wizzy 10 with greater mid-range emphasis. frankly, i'm glad it isn't -- at least from what you've said it seem it isn't. you can still get that fat bottom like from the ContraEx. that's what i would want it for -- i've already got a Wizzy so AI didn't need to do that.

but i must say your experience seems a bit contrary to some of the promotional stuff, e.g., from Bob G, who said or posted manufacturer material stating:

"This brand-new model to the Acoustic Image line, the Ten2 2x10 Extension Speaker, offers significantly more midrange presence compared with other AI enclosures, without the typical “hump” served up by traditional cabs..." from what you say, it isn't that much more. maybe Bob was talking about a prototype model, or maybe there is something else going on with the Ten2 Ex that i don't know. i'd appreciate any input anyone might have there...

another surprize for me in your comment was that you actually say the Ten2 Ex is louder than 2 ContraEx cabs paired together. according to what i've seen, the Ten2 Ex is one 4Ohm combined cab. on the other hand, two ContraEx cabs each @ 4Ohms and combined @ 2Ohms would tend to be significantly louder if my assumption is correct.

thanks again for sharing your experience. i am really looking forward to getting one of these.