First pickup if you did it all over again

[Marc Piane]

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

Underwood would be my second choice, above the Bass Max only because it's thin and fits in most bridge wings without alteration.

I settled on the Bassmax because the tone on my bass is a little gutsier. It's on the bass that I use to do singer/songwriter rock gigs and that is the tone that I want.

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Originally Posted by Eric Hochberg

I would snag this

Underwood Pickup and get an Fdeck preamp.

I bought that one.

I've owned Underwoods before and although their tone isn't generally all that natural, they do have their place.

Ultimately, you gotta use what works.

[musicman1586]

Originally Posted by drurb

I agree wholeheartedly that the sound must come from the player and that relative newbies may not appreciate that to the extent that they should. I NEVER practice with my bass amplified. It's all about the acoustic sound (for me). As I've said before, I consider amplification to be a necessary evil. Still, I don't think the OP put the cart before the horse. The OP asked a reasonable question. It was, if you had to start over at the beginning and choose a pickup that you thought would work out well, what would it be? That's a reasonable question and I don't think that implicit in that question is a disregard for the importance of developing one's acoustic sound.

This is my intention here. Let me reiterate that I am not looking for the perfect pickup solution at all, far from it in truth because at this early into my playing I probably wouldn't even know it if it was right in front of me. My question is NOT about MY bass, MY setup, MY sound. It is about your responses to the hypothetical situation I have posed. Which pickup would you choose if you had to go in blind to a situation, not knowing the bass you'd be playing, the amp setup you would have, etc.?
So far there's been a lot of good responses, but threads have a tendency to get derailed here, just like any forum really, so just bringing it back to the question I asked.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

I think the Full Circle is more than a "turn-key device" - rather it's a reliable, no fuss (once it's on) "will always sound at least OK on every bass and will sometimes sound brilliant on the right bass with the right player" type of device.

Yes, a nice turn-key solution.

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

I've listened to that, and have even recorded similar comparisons myself. But the real proof for me is what the pickup sounds like on the gig in the mix, which brings in a lot of variables, but which also is what the final goal is.

Of course. My experience with the Ehrlund is that it has shined in every "gig situation" I've thrown at it, some of which were very unfriendly to amplification.

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

In my experience, while mics and mic-like devices always sound best when recorded direct, I quit using/mixing mics into my stage sound because while they sometimes sounded good to great, they often introduced issues that distracted me from my main goal of making music.

I have had the same experience with mics. I have not encountered the usual drawbacks of such devices at all using the Ehrlund. The Ehrlund is NOT a device restricted to direct recording at all. When I've recorded, I've gone with the #1 choice in that circumstance. That is, a high-quality microphone which would be awful on a gig.

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

The Phil Jones combos and the Full Circle sound consistently good everywhere I go, which is what I'm after. If I'm distracted trying to dial in a sound, I never play my best.

Agreed. With the Ehrlund, I've had to do less "dialing in" than ever. I've found the sweet spot and it's now "set it and forget it." In contrast, with piezo-based pickups, which I've found don't reproduce the attack/decay profile nearly as well, I would often fight to get my sound to cut through. That was especially true when playing with a big-band in a medium-size room.

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

As for the Full Circle, IMO it's not perfect, but to me it's like the "spiro mittel" of pickups. You know what that sound is, and even if it's not your first choice, you can always pick up a bass so equipped and make some music.

Again, I concur, but I prefer to actually have my first choice and I believe others would consider it that as well if they'd only try it.

Originally Posted by Greg Clinkingbeard

The role of the bass player is to first outline the changes and keep the tune moving with a good time feel. Although I often get compliments on my sound, other musicians on the gig want to clearly hear the changes and feel good about the time. If I'm struggling with getting through, overplaying after engaging my HPF and adjusting EQ then I'm not in the flow of delivering what the other musicians need. Whether or not my pickup accurately captures the acoustic character of my instrument in my living room is way down the list.

Yes, yes, yes, indeed! I hope you'll read (again?) the comments about the attack/decay profile in the Ehrlund "blog". Because the Ehrlund does such a good job at rendering that in real live gig situations, the "pulse" and intonation cut right through. It's not one or the other in terms of musicians hearing the changes and feeling the beat vs. reproducing the sound of your instrument. They are intimately related, my friend! What I have found is that the same characteristics of the Ehrlund that result in it doing exactly what you (and most of us want) are also those that result in it reproducing the sound of the individual instrument so well. Again, it's not a tradeoff. One comes along with the other. Hey, I have no personal or financial interest in pushing the Ehrlund. The simple fact is that, once I started using it, most of the issues regarding cutting through in terms of the pulse and the pitch just vanished. It fulfills wonderfully the role of the bass player that you articulated so well.

Originally Posted by musicman1586

This is my intention here. Let me reiterate that I am not looking for the perfect pickup solution at all, far from it in truth because at this early into my playing I probably wouldn't even know it if it was right in front of me. My question is NOT about MY bass, MY setup, MY sound. It is about your responses to the hypothetical situation I have posed. Which pickup would you choose if you had to go in blind to a situation, not knowing the bass you'd be playing, the amp setup you would have, etc.?
So far there's been a lot of good responses, but threads have a tendency to get derailed here, just like any forum really, so just bringing it back to the question I asked.

That's an interesting hypothetical. Taking it fully at it's face, if one were walking into such a situation, one could not easily attach a Full Circle to the unknown bass! On the other hand, one wouldn't have time to play with the positioning of an Ehrlund either. In such a case, I'd go with some reliable bridge-mounted pickup such as the Underwood or Bassmax. Now, once the strict conditions of your hypothetical are relaxed, it's a different story. Then, I go back to what I said earlier. That is, if tomorrow, someone said he was going to hand me a bass that was mine to keep and that I had one choice to make regarding the pickup and I had to stick with that pickup for the forseeable future, I'd choose the Ehrlund-- hands down, every time. That is, unless something better comes along.

[Marc Piane]

Originally Posted by musicman1586

Which pickup would you choose if you had to go in blind to a situation, not knowing the bass you'd be playing, the amp setup you would have, etc.?

This is a hard question to answer but if I had to chose one blind over the phone I'd prefer a wing pickup (bassmax, underwood). They seem less dependent on the bass they are installed on.

[hdiddy]

planet wing gets my vote for little fuss.

[longfinger]

I have two double basses, Strunal Ply and a Sun Sinfonica fully carved bass. I have a Full Circle installed on each of them. The Full Circle is a very good reliable, p/u, however if I could do the p/u thing all over again with the same two basses, I'd look for a solution where I could have 1 p/u that I swap between the two basses.

Based on what I've seen/heard, I'd be checking out the Ehrlund acoustic pickup and their preamp to go with it. One pickup for two basses, but also very usable for acoustic guitar, violin, viola, cello, madolin, ukelele etc. Much more versatile in that way, and much more affordable than a Full Circle or any other "one p/u per instrument" device, once you bring in multiple instruments. I don't own an Ehrlund, maybe it's not what the ads promise, but I heard it in concert and liked what I heard.

[DoubleMIDI]

For a beginner I would recommend the Shadow SH-965NFX(-B).

It is a bridge foot pickup, similar to the Realist, but with two foils (it is possible to use only one if you want), sound good with arco and has a bit darker pizz sound (but I got some brightness from a Hartke bass amp I used once).
Since it has an impedance converter built-in, a beginner doesn't have to worry about impedances. It doesn't need any modification of the bass.
The bridge will be raised about a millimeter, but this doesn't matter if you can adjust your bridge or use only one foil under the lower string bridge foot.

The only little drawback is the afterlength mounted power adapter and control unit. Sometimes the PCB rattles inside (open it and put some foam in) and it might be hard to mount it at another place if you don't like it on the afterlengths (I put on the highest two strings to let the lower ones a bit more room to vibrate).

Personally I had very mixed experiences with a Full Circle, from rather unusable due to strong resonances (getting better but not good by turning the wheel) to nice (with a different amplifier). I never got problems like this with the Shadow or any other pickup I tried.

In Europe the Shadow SH-965NFX-B is a rather cheap solution (160€), maybe more expensive elsewhere.

This is probably not a best sound solution, but a cheap one for beginners without a lot of experimentation needed.

[drurb]

...but

Originally Posted by musicman1586

This is my intention here. Let me reiterate that I am not looking for the perfect pickup solution at all, far from it in truth because at this early into my playing I probably wouldn't even know it if it was right in front of me. My question is NOT about MY bass, MY setup, MY sound. It is about your responses to the hypothetical situation I have posed. Which pickup would you choose if you had to go in blind to a situation, not knowing the bass you'd be playing, the amp setup you would have, etc.?

[uOpt]

I would take the scientific approach, take a beater bass body, route it out and try different pickups in there. The thing that's holding me back is that I want to play more and fiddle less.

My experience so far indicates that I like both kinds of pickups - '51 style Precision and '57 split coil Precision.

[Clarkybass]

Originally Posted by uOpt

I would take the scientific approach, take a beater bass body, route it out and try different pickups in there. The thing that's holding me back is that I want to play more and fiddle less.

My experience so far indicates that I like both kinds of pickups - '51 style Precision and '57 split coil Precision.

Hmmm, routing out a double bass body? Don't think so!

[RenanDias]

Revolution Solo II.
Although it is kinda difficult to setup and even more to keep in the same place, it really reproduces the sound of your bass, for good or bad. And it's not expensive.

It's difficult to keep it in the right spot because it's made of spruce wood, so it changes according to the weather. It's really like a microphone, any minor position alteration (and/or pressure) will affect the sound.

Important: running through any DI (e.g. Para Acoustic DI) will completely remove the piezo quack and will sound like a mic, with good depth feel.